To all Mormons on this forum


#1

Hello and God bless!

I have read with great interest the varying threads concerning your church beliefs versus our (Catholic) church beliefs and am compelled to make some comments and ask a question or two.

I’ll begin with the comments.

I find all of you to be very excited and happy with your faith, if not a little bit on the defensive side. I can understand that since you are in a non-LDS forum. I get the sense that you really do care about seeking and knowing God’s Will for you in your individual lives and I admire and respect that, especially because it does come out in your postings.

My second comment would be to advise you to get a “thicker skin” so to speak so you will not be easily offended or think that anyone here, (most, anyway) are not trying to attack YOU or even the LDS church as a whole so much as ask questions concerning your beliefs which to us do appear to be at odds with how we understand the Bible and Church Tradition. I make this second comment because I would truly hate to see any of you leave these forums hurt or disgusted with us. We are like you, only humans with the sames faults you all have. Your patience and endurance can only help just as our would toward you and understanding your beliefs. This being a Catholic forum, you wouldn’t really expect anyone to agree with you on teachings anyway, right?

Lastly, I have noticed that when documentation from your scriptures are given to support a non-LDS view, they seem to be rarely ackknowledged in favor of what the current teaching in your church may be without little or no documentation explaining the reason for the change in a given disputed topic.

I hope none of you will be offended at my post, but that you will know that you are truly welcome and appreciated. Thanks for bearing with me. I know I only generalized a few things here, but I hope it still will provide some food for thought. - God bless! - Maranajewell


#2

Thank you for your post, I too have been following these Catholic vs LDS posts for a while and find them to go in circles mostly.
Rightly so, because each of us believes our own religion to be the true religion and nothing said here is going to sway either of us if we truely believe. It is interesting and informative nevertheless to read what others believe, and I have learned a few things about my own religion. I have questions about the Catholic religion that have recently risen and I guess I should really start a thread for that purpose.
I returned from Cuzco, Peru this past Saturday, where I toured the Catholic Cathedral there, Santa Catalina(I believe it is called). It is built over the top of an Inca temple and the gold plate which completely covered the Inca temple, and the solid gold statues and adornments of the Incas were melted down and used to adorn the Catholic church. The statues and all of the wooden carvings, alters etc. in the Cathedral are completely covered in pure gold. There are no books showing the inside of this Cathedral and no photos allowed, because they said the Mafia might come and steal the gold. I wonder about this immense wealth, obviously stolen from the Inca Indians and used in such a way. The Peruvians are extremely poor and would benefit from this gold if the church would melt it down and give it back to the people. I have also toured the Sistine Chapel and the wealth there is unbelievable, why with all of this treasure are Catholic Diocese allowed to go bankrupt, and Catholic people allowed to starve? I do not understand this. My husband is a very devout Catholic and he is disturbed by this also. Is there anyone who can answer my question? I do not mean to be offensive, I just truly wonder why the gold is not returned to the Peruvians and why a Christian church would steal it in the first place?
BJ


#3

[quote=BJ Colbert]Thank you for your post, I too have been following these Catholic vs LDS posts for a while and find them to go in circles mostly.
Rightly so, because each of us believes our own religion to be the true religion and nothing said here is going to sway either of us if we truely believe. It is interesting and informative nevertheless to read what others believe, and I have learned a few things about my own religion. I have questions about the Catholic religion that have recently risen and I guess I should really start a thread for that purpose.
I returned from Cuzco, Peru this past Saturday, where I toured the Catholic Cathedral there, Santa Catalina(I believe it is called). It is built over the top of an Inca temple and the gold plate which completely covered the Inca temple, and the solid gold statues and adornments of the Incas were melted down and used to adorn the Catholic church. The statues and all of the wooden carvings, alters etc. in the Cathedral are completely covered in pure gold. There are no books showing the inside of this Cathedral and no photos allowed, because they said the Mafia might come and steal the gold. I wonder about this immense wealth, obviously stolen from the Inca Indians and used in such a way. The Peruvians are extremely poor and would benefit from this gold if the church would melt it down and give it back to the people. I have also toured the Sistine Chapel and the wealth there is unbelievable, why with all of this treasure are Catholic Diocese allowed to go bankrupt, and Catholic people allowed to starve? I do not understand this. My husband is a very devout Catholic and he is disturbed by this also. Is there anyone who can answer my question? I do not mean to be offensive, I just truly wonder why the gold is not returned to the Peruvians and why a Christian church would steal it in the first place?
BJ
[/quote]

I do not know about the thing in Peru. I have never heard of that.

For the Sistine Chapel. Each diocese is seperate. They all suport themselves. The whole Church does not own all that wealth. What kind of wealth do they have in the Sistine Chapel, other than the painting? I would love to see the Sistine Chapel.


#4

Thank you for your answer, so as I understand from your reply is that each Diocese stands alone as a separate and self supporting entity from the main Catholic church. That explains a lot.
I too thought the Sistine Chapel was just a painting on the ceiling, and was amazed to find it is many enormous rooms filled to the brim with antiquities and treasure unequaled anywhere in the world. It took several hours to reach the actual room where the painting is. It is absolutely magnificent, I kept notes on everything I saw until my companions were getting anxious that we would not get to see the painting.
BJ


#5

[quote=BJ Colbert]why with all of this treasure are Catholic Diocese allowed to go bankrupt, and Catholic people allowed to starve? I do not understand this. My husband is a very devout Catholic and he is disturbed by this also. Is there anyone who can answer my question? I do not mean to be offensive, I just truly wonder why the gold is not returned to the Peruvians and why a Christian church would steal it in the first place?
[/quote]

The apostles made these same claims when people gave things of great wealth to Jesus Christ. The first to come to mind is Mary bringing the expensive perfume. And what was Jesus’ response? He rebuked them. And we can look at the woman who gave two denarius (sp?) and Jesus said she gave more than all the wealthy people. Giving to The Church is a sacrifice for many people, and a sacrifice that will have innumerable rewards in eternal life.


#6

[quote=BJ Colbert]Thank you for your answer, so as I understand from your reply is that each Diocese stands alone as a separate and self supporting entity from the main Catholic church. That explains a lot.
[/quote]

Well, for the most part.

I too thought the Sistine Chapel was just a painting on the ceiling, and was amazed to find it is many enormous rooms filled to the brim with antiquities and treasure unequaled anywhere in the world. It took several hours to reach the actual room where the painting is. It is absolutely magnificent, I kept notes on everything I saw until my companions were getting anxious that we would not get to see the painting.

That must have been SO AWESOME to see!!!


#7

[quote=BJ Colbert]Thank you for your post, I too have been following these Catholic vs LDS posts for a while and find them to go in circles mostly.
Rightly so, because each of us believes our own religion to be the true religion and nothing said here is going to sway either of us if we truely believe. It is interesting and informative nevertheless to read what others believe, and I have learned a few things about my own religion. I have questions about the Catholic religion that have recently risen and I guess I should really start a thread for that purpose.
I returned from Cuzco, Peru this past Saturday, where I toured the Catholic Cathedral there, Santa Catalina(I believe it is called). It is built over the top of an Inca temple and the gold plate which completely covered the Inca temple, and the solid gold statues and adornments of the Incas were melted down and used to adorn the Catholic church. The statues and all of the wooden carvings, alters etc. in the Cathedral are completely covered in pure gold. There are no books showing the inside of this Cathedral and no photos allowed, because they said the Mafia might come and steal the gold. I wonder about this immense wealth, obviously stolen from the Inca Indians and used in such a way. The Peruvians are extremely poor and would benefit from this gold if the church would melt it down and give it back to the people. I have also toured the Sistine Chapel and the wealth there is unbelievable, why with all of this treasure are Catholic Diocese allowed to go bankrupt, and Catholic people allowed to starve? I do not understand this. My husband is a very devout Catholic and he is disturbed by this also. Is there anyone who can answer my question? I do not mean to be offensive, I just truly wonder why the gold is not returned to the Peruvians and why a Christian church would steal it in the first place?
BJ
[/quote]

My my my…where to begin. It’s so ironic to me that this question comes from a member of the CoJCoLDS. The LDS Church (the Church itself, not the members) has more wealth per member than any other major religion in the world. Not only that, it requires a full 10% tithe(as I’m sure you know) from even it’s poorest members if they are to receive all the “blessings” the faith has to offer. Time Magazine did a feature article on the Church in 1997. Here’s one excerpt:

"The top beef ranch in the world is not the King Ranch in Texas. It is the Deseret Cattle & Citrus Ranch outside Orlando, Fla. It covers 312,000 acres; its value as real estate alone is estimated at $858 million. It is owned entirely by the Mormons. The largest producer of nuts in America, AgReserves, Inc., in Salt Lake City, is Mormon-owned. So are the Bonneville International Corp., the country’s 14th largest radio chain, and the Beneficial Life Insurance Co., with assets of $1.6 billion. There are richer churches than the one based in Salt Lake City: Roman Catholic holdings dwarf Mormon wealth. But the Catholic Church has 45 times as many members. There is no major church in the U.S. as active as the Latter-day Saints in economic life, nor, per capita, as successful at it."
The LDS Church has most of it’s money dedicated to making more money. The Catholic Church has most of it’s money dedicated to serving God. I’m not saying that the LDS leaders are trying to enrich themselves. I’m sure their motives are well placed. But, the evidence speaks for itself.

You say "I wonder about this immense wealth, obviously stolen from the Inca Indians and used in such a way."
Obvious to whom? The Church was built in the 17th century. Almost all of the natives were Catholic at that time. Throughout history, men and women of faith have given their best in material goods to God. Is there a better place for gold adornment than in a house where God dwells? These beautiful buildings are monuments dedicated to worshipping God and for God to dwell in. Was there a more beautiful building in ancient Israel than Solomon’s temple? Did Christ condemn the extravagant architecture of the Jewish Temple? No, he drove the moneychangers out of it…he understood it’s value completely.

Should the Vatican give up all it’s historical treasures? Absolutely not. Should we sell everything in the Smithsonian to the highest bidder? No, those items are far more valuable in their meaning and history than they are monetarily. Should we sell the White House and all it’s adornments to feed the poor? No, because we understand the importance of the symbolism. Our President represents our country, he represents an ideal. We want our country to be represented properly and respectfully. Should we do any less for God?

Finally, one could also say that the Mormon Pioneers “stole” most of their land from the Ute, Paiute and Navajo Indians. Why don’t they give back the land they took to help the impoverished Native Americans?


#8

Tmaque, Amen, I am so tired of hearing how wealthy the Catholic Church. My sister who is non-denominational tries to make that point often, I wouldn’t mind so much if she included all the other wealthy religions in the world and not focus so much on the Catholic Church…

God Bless,
Kathleen


#9

[quote=BJ Colbert]I returned from Cuzco, Peru this past Saturday, where I toured the Catholic Cathedral there, Santa Catalina(I believe it is called). It is built over the top of an Inca temple and the gold plate which completely covered the Inca temple, and the solid gold statues and adornments of the Incas were melted down and used to adorn the Catholic church. The statues and all of the wooden carvings, alters etc. in the Cathedral are completely covered in pure gold. There are no books showing the inside of this Cathedral and no photos allowed, because they said the Mafia might come and steal the gold. I wonder about this immense wealth, obviously stolen from the Inca Indians and used in such a way. The Peruvians are extremely poor and would benefit from this gold if the church would melt it down and give it back to the people. I have also toured the Sistine Chapel and the wealth there is unbelievable, why with all of this treasure are Catholic Diocese allowed to go bankrupt, and Catholic people allowed to starve? I do not understand this. My husband is a very devout Catholic and he is disturbed by this also. Is there anyone who can answer my question? I do not mean to be offensive, I just truly wonder why the gold is not returned to the Peruvians and why a Christian church would steal it in the first place?
BJ
[/quote]

BJ, I would first of all say that no organization, religion, or institution in the whole world does as much for the poor as the Catholic Church–hospitals, shelters, food, clothing, you name it. Sure we can always do more, but if you did the research for yourself and compared it with other organizations and religions, I’m sure you would be surprised.

Now, as to the treasures that are contained in our places of worship or historical sites. I think you could easily answer this question for yourself by thinking of your own temples in the Mormon Church, which are constructed at great expense and luxuriously adorned. Would you sell items from the Salt Lake Temple to feed the poor in Salt Lake City? There is nothing wrong with artists using their skills to praise God, which is what these treasures are all about. In fact, one reason Catholic churches througout the ages had such artwork was to tell the story of salvation history in visual form since most people couldn’t read. This is now not the case today, but I don’t think we should destroy or sell off such artwork because it’s function is still to glorify God.

As far as the Peru cathedral example goes, I don’t know about that specific case, but I do know that similar things were done with the resources of other ancient pagan cultures like the Roman empire. You have to put yourself in the place of the people of the time. Christianity triumphed over *pagan *Rome, which worshipped false gods. The use of their materials for Christian art to me represents the triumph of truth over falsehood. Perhaps the same is true for the Peru example. Though today we find the history of ancient cultures interesting to study and ponder, back then Christianity stood in opposition to paganism, and when it conquered paganism it replaced idol worship with worship of the one true God. We might find this harsh today in a kinder gentler world, but that was the reality back then.

By the way, did you go to Peru on a Book of Mormon tour?


#10

BJ,
I suggest instead of sending your tithe money to the rich guys in SLC that you send it to the poor in Peru. Maybe the Mormons can compensate the Indian tribes they took land from? Perhaps instead of building massive temples only open to a few they could use the money for the poor?


#11

There is wealth, as in extravagance and being excessively ornate, and there is wealth as in historic significance, culture, art and traditions.

It’s a fine line that may be very difficult to define if not impossible. Peoples taste and sensibilities are all different. Certainly we should offer up our very best to God. Many of the Chruches and Cathedral in Europe and around the world are labors of love from the craftsmen who designed and built them down to the every day folks who donated and offered up their labor to assist.

The National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception to Our Lady in DC is a magnificent Basilica. It has beautiful marble floors, huge vaulted ceilings etc. It took a lot of money and manpower to build. It took 30 or 40 years to build. People from all over the world donated to have it constructed (even Babe Ruth donated to it.)

There are chapels representing more than 15 countries within it. The Catholic faithful around the world all wanted this built as a testimony to our love for God and for our Blessed Mother.

An outsider may think, this is really to much would it not be better to donate the money for this to the poor ?? In some peoples view this may easily be considered an extravagance. For others the beauty and magnificent structures are a testament to how much people were willing to work and give up to make a wonderful place of worship to God.

To make a Church built of a lot of gold would seem to me to be way over the top. At first hearing about this, I would tend to agree with the notion that all this may have been taken/stolen by the initial spanish conquerors and used to build this Church. IF that were true, returning the gold (or proceeds from sale of the gold artifacts) to the people would be appropriate.

BUT if the gold was a gift from the people then we should not do anything as that was their gift to God, and a tribute to their faith and self sacrifice.

wc


#12

[quote=BJ Colbert]Thank you for your answer, so as I understand from your reply is that each Diocese stands alone as a separate and self supporting entity from the main Catholic church. That explains a lot.
I too thought the Sistine Chapel was just a painting on the ceiling, and was amazed to find it is many enormous rooms filled to the brim with antiquities and treasure unequaled anywhere in the world. It took several hours to reach the actual room where the painting is. It is absolutely magnificent, I kept notes on everything I saw until my companions were getting anxious that we would not get to see the painting.
BJ
[/quote]

I would love to see the Sistine Chapel, it sounds beautiful.


#13

[quote=wcknight]To make a Church built of a lot of gold would seem to me to be way over the top. At first hearing about this, I would tend to agree with the notion that all this may have been taken/stolen by the initial spanish conquerors and used to build this Church. IF that were true, returning the gold (or proceeds from sale of the gold artifacts) to the people would be appropriate.

BUT if the gold was a gift from the people then we should not do anything as that was their gift to God, and a tribute to their faith and self sacrifice.

wc
[/quote]

Even if it was taken from the pagan Incas they aren’t around to give it back to. Who do you think had the gold anyway? The poor? No, it was most certainly Incan royalty. Besides, I’m sure the Catholic peasants in Peru would never allow anyone to destroy their beautiful cathedral. Finally, I’m sure the local economy benefits greatly from the tourist trade primarily because that ornate cathedral is there. Why would anyone suggest killing this golden goose?


#14

BJ with all due respect but what about all the temples going up around the world. These temples are lavishly decorated and furnished, they all have golden statues of the Angel Moroni on their spires.

The only people allowed to go inside are “worthy” dues-paying Mormons, not even all Mormons.

The only thing that happens inside them are top secret Masonic-based endowment rites, “baptism for the dead” and weddings/sealings. Even at the weddings no-one is allowed to be present except for Mormons with temple passes. Even parents and siblings are forbidden to attend their own children’s weddings unless they have their temple papers.

Compare this to Catholic Cathedrals. Everyone including non-Catholics is allowed to enter and worship. Most cathedrals are far more modest in decor and furnishing than Mormon temples. St. Peter’s and the cathedral in Peru are only two of the hundreds of cathedrals world wide. And there is definately no secret Masonic influence on anything that ever happens in a cathedral.


#15

Wow! Great responses, I learned a lot from all the views expressed. I definitely have a different view now than I was getting from the Peruvian guide. I agree with the point that the poor did not have the gold and therefore when the conquerers came and instilled Christianity they had the right to decorate their churches in honor to God. Also, if the gold were not in the church it still would not go to the people, but only to corrupt government officials, I think. No matter how much is given to the poor there are always the corrupt few who spoil it and take it for themselves.

As for the wealth of the Mormon or the Catholic churches and the 10% tithing which I am sure many Catholics pay, also as it is a commandment of God. The money goes to help the people and in doing God’s work on earth, as well as buildings and temples. The Catholic Charities and the LDS church work together at times in all of their world charities. The Mormon church just got the highest award from the Red Cross for donating $1million to the African campaign to wipe out measles. Also, the mormon poor are fed and clothed by the church, as you know we have our own welfare system, so none of our members are supported by government. We are the first to send food and clothing and housing for any disaster anywhere in the world. This is made possible by our ranches, canneries and other businesses which generate the money and products to accomplish this help. I know the Catholic Charities is the same and is a great help all over the world. So I guess wealth when used for good purposes and in helping God’s children is a good thing. The Catholic Church has certainly used it’s wealth for good.
Oh and for the temples not being open for all people, they are for a period of time before dedication, but after that only worthy members of the church may enter. Worthy, meaning, persons who keep the commandments of God, pay a full tithing, stay faithful to marriage vows, live the word of wisdom etc. There are many mormons who do not live these standards and therefore may strive for many years before being able to hold a Temple recommend. There are no secret ordinances performed there, they are only sacred to us and we don’t discuss them with people who would ridicule or not understand.
Anyone may enter our chapels for regular church services. I believe there are places in the Vatican that are not open to people off the street, but only to people who are close to the Pope and living according to the values set forth by the church or by God.
I may not have explained this well, but I am thankful to all of you for clarifying my thoughts.
BJ


#16

As for the wealth of the Mormon or the Catholic churches and the 10% tithing which I am sure many Catholics pay, also as it is a commandment of God.

You know what’s sad? The Catholic Church recommends a 10% tithe (6% to The Church, 4% to the poor) from what I have heard, however, the average person gives 3% total. This information was not “official”, but came from the Director of Religious Education at my parish.

Oh and for the temples not being open for all people, they are for a period of time before dedication, but after that only worthy members of the church may enter.

Hey, does this mean I can tour the temple they’re building near us (in Folsom)? I believe I would like to see the inside!


#17

[quote=Tmaque]My my my…where to begin. It’s so ironic to me that this question comes from a member of the CoJCoLDS. The LDS Church (the Church itself, not the members) has more wealth per member than any other major religion in the world. Not only that, it requires a full 10% tithe(as I’m sure you know) from even it’s poorest members if they are to receive all the “blessings” the faith has to offer. Time Magazine did a feature article on the Church in 1997. Here’s one excerpt:

"The top beef ranch in the world is not the King Ranch in Texas. It is the Deseret Cattle & Citrus Ranch outside Orlando, Fla. It covers 312,000 acres; its value as real estate alone is estimated at $858 million. It is owned entirely by the Mormons. The largest producer of nuts in America, AgReserves, Inc., in Salt Lake City, is Mormon-owned. So are the Bonneville International Corp., the country’s 14th largest radio chain, and the Beneficial Life Insurance Co., with assets of $1.6 billion. There are richer churches than the one based in Salt Lake City: Roman Catholic holdings dwarf Mormon wealth. But the Catholic Church has 45 times as many members. There is no major church in the U.S. as active as the Latter-day Saints in economic life, nor, per capita, as successful at it."
The LDS Church has most of it’s money dedicated to making more money. The Catholic Church has most of it’s money dedicated to serving God. I’m not saying that the LDS leaders are trying to enrich themselves. I’m sure their motives are well placed. But, the evidence speaks for itself.

You say "I wonder about this immense wealth, obviously stolen from the Inca Indians and used in such a way."
Obvious to whom? The Church was built in the 17th century. Almost all of the natives were Catholic at that time. Throughout history, men and women of faith have given their best in material goods to God. Is there a better place for gold adornment than in a house where God dwells? These beautiful buildings are monuments dedicated to worshipping God and for God to dwell in. Was there a more beautiful building in ancient Israel than Solomon’s temple? Did Christ condemn the extravagant architecture of the Jewish Temple? No, he drove the moneychangers out of it…he understood it’s value completely.

Should the Vatican give up all it’s historical treasures? Absolutely not. Should we sell everything in the Smithsonian to the highest bidder? No, those items are far more valuable in their meaning and history than they are monetarily. Should we sell the White House and all it’s adornments to feed the poor? No, because we understand the importance of the symbolism. Our President represents our country, he represents an ideal. We want our country to be represented properly and respectfully. Should we do any less for God?

Finally, one could also say that the Mormon Pioneers “stole” most of their land from the Ute, Paiute and Navajo Indians. Why don’t they give back the land they took to help the impoverished Native Americans?
[/quote]

I guess we all should give back the whole USA to the Indians and also California to Mexico, and on and on. You are right about most things in your writing and I agree with a lot. But, as you can read from my last writing, the Mormon church does not use their wealth for the enrichment of a few, but just as the Catholic church does, they use it for helping in disaster and poverty stricken areas all over the world.
BJ


#18

My sister had a similar reaction when she toured the Vatican. She thought it was awful that the Church had all these priceless treasures when there were so many poor people who could be fed with this wealth.

I respectfully disagree. Such treasures belong to ALL of us (not just to Catholics but to all mankind). The Church is the caretaker of such things as Michelangelo’s Pieta and the Sistine Chapel and so forth. The sale of such treasures to a museum or (worse) to a private collector would certainly mean a one-time infusion of cash, but that would not be a sure-fire solution to poverty–which needs a more systematic, sustainable solution. As it is, the priceless artistic treasures of the Church are preserved and maintained for all of us to appreciate and enjoy–both as works of art and as sources of inspiration and reflection. I think that the results of giving them up would be both short-term and short-sighted.


#19

By the way, did you go to Peru on a Book of Mormon tour?

Chris,
No I went on my own with my daughter. We cruised 2 weeks on the Royal Princess from Buenos Aires, Argentina to Valparaiso, Chile and then flew to Cuzco for a week on our own touring Machu Picchu and other ruins.
Actually the Book of Mormon is not about the Incas or the Aztecs, but we believe it may be about the people who landed in Guatemala or Central America about 600 years before Christ, of course it is all speculation which people of the many tribes who lived on the American continent are the Nephites or Lamanites. The Incas came before that possibly as early as 2000 years.
The guide said that Machu Picchu was discovered by modern man, Hyrum Bingham in 1911 and has really not been excavated completely. It was never discovered by the Spaniards. They believe it was a temple and city for the royalty. It is amazing how they designed it all to be earthquake proof in country of constant earthquakes the walls slant in slightly and there is no mortar to hold the rocks together. The stones they used to build the walls weigh as much as 60 tons or more each, and they have been carved and lifted up to fit perfectly into the stone above. There are also windows that twice a year(solstice) when the sun shines in the right spot tells them to plant or harvest. They believed in 3 degrees of heaven and there are many designs with 3 windows or walls etc. He said they are sending archeologists in the next 2 years to start working on it. They do not know how it was built, and have a lot to learn about the civilizations that inhabited the area during that time. They know there were many wars and that the people disappeared. So, it will be interesting to see what if anything the archeologists discover. I am sure it will be many years before there are results of any studies.
BJ


#20

Hey, does this mean I can tour the temple they’re building near us (in Folsom)? I believe I would like to see the inside!

Yes, you may tour for several weeks before the dedication. The Folsom or Sacramento Temple is number 123 of temples worldwide. There are about 6 currently being built worldwide. They dedicated the Ghana, Africa temple in Jan 2004, rededicated the Copenhagen, Denmark Temple in May 2004 and the Manhatten, New York Temple June 2004. Redlands, Calif Temple has been dedicated, and the San Antonio, Texas is next on the schedule. It usually takes 18 months from groundbreaking to dedication, so watch for it in about one more year.
BJ


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