To Former Mormons

Any of you see this before?


Hi Marie.

Do you have a text version anywhere? You’ve always seemed to me like one of the reasonable voices here, and if it’s making you feel rage I’m very leery.

No, I dont know of any text version. Sorry.

I couldnt go beyond the first 10 mins…Im so so soo angry

Any key words I can search on? I’m all the more determined not to watch a video if it’s so emotionally manipulative as you describe.

I heard this sometime last year. If it is remotely true, it is absolutely disgusting. Corruption, hypocrisy, elitism. I could go on, but it would be inappropriate for this forum.

It’s not emotionally manipulative. It is shocking. That’s why it can ilicit such a response.

(I expect you may have already read this if you tend to research )

Three Meetings with a LDS General Authority, 2012- 2013

Grant Palmer

Editor Comment: Grant waited 6 months before releasing this report to the public because he wanted to make sure this is what the GA believed.

In mid-October 2012, a returned LDS Mission President contacted me to arrange a meeting. Several days later, he called again and said that a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy also wished to attend. He said the General Authority would attend on condition that I not name him or repeat any stories that would identify him. He explained that neither of them, including the GA’s wife, believed the founding claims of the restoration were true. He clarified that they had read my book, An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins, and had concluded that the LDS Church was not true; was not what it claimed to be. The GA often went to the website for information and there discovered my book. The Mission President said he received my book from the GA.
We have at this writing met three times. We first met on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 and again February 14, 2013 at my house. On March 26, 2013 we convened at the GAs house. Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, “We are here to learn.” I recognized him. He has been a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy for a number of years. He has served in several high profile assignments during this period. The following are the more important statements made by the GA during our first three meetings. We now meet monthly.
He said that each new member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is given one million dollars to take care of any financial obligations they have. This money gift allows them to fully focus on the ministry. He said that the overriding consideration of who is chosen is whether they are “church broke,” meaning, will they do whatever they are told. He said the senior six apostles make the agenda and do most of the talking. The junior six are told to observe, listen and learn and really only comment if they are asked. He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true. He said it took Dieter F. Uchtdorf a little longer because he was an outsider. He said they privately talk among themselves and know the foundational claims of the restoration are not true, but continue on boldly “because the people need it,” meaning the people need the church. When the Mission President voiced skepticism and named ___ as one who surely did believe, The GA said: “No, he doesn’t.” The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn’t expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims.
When I asked the GA how he knew these things, he answered by saying that the Quorum of the Twelve today is more isolated from the Quorums of the Seventies now because there are several of them. When only one Quorum of the Seventy existed, there was more intimacy. During his one on one assignments with an apostle, conversations were more familiar. He said that none of the apostles ever said to him directly that they did not believe; but that it was his opinion based on “his interactions with them.” Also, that none of the Twelve want to discuss “truth issues,” meaning issues regarding the foundational claims of the church.
He said that the apostle’s lives are so completely and entirely enmeshed in every detail of their lives in the church, that many of them would probably die defending the church rather than admit the truth about Joseph Smith and the foundations of the church. The GA stated that my disciplinary action (which would have occurred on the final Sunday of October 2010 had I not resigned), was mandated/ordered/approved by the First Presidency of the Church. I said that if the apostles know the church is not true and yet order a disciplinary hearing for my writing a book that is almost certainly true regarding the foundational claims of the church, then they are corrupt even evil. He replied, “That’s right!”
The GA said the church is like a weakened dam. At first you don’t see cracks on the face; nevertheless, things are happening behind the scenes. Eventually, small cracks appear, and then the dam will “explode.” When it does, he said, the members are going to be “shocked” and will need scholars/historians like me to educate them regarding the Mormon past.

(More…this is the first I have read this and I dont doubt Palmer’s credibility)

The Mission President and the GA both said they attend church every Sunday and feel like “a hypocrite and trapped.” The GA said his ward treats him like a king and when he gives firesides and speaks to LDS congregations they have high expectations of him. He would like to do more in getting the truth out besides raising a few questions when speaking and gifting my book to others when feeling comfortable. Perhaps this is why he has reached out to me. The GA is a man of integrity and very loving. Upon leaving each time, he always gives me a big hug.
Do the Following Statements Support the Disclosures of the GA?

Apostle Boyd K. Packer said to Michael Quinn when interviewing him for a history position at BYU in 1976, “I have a hard time with historians because they idolize the truth. The truth is not uplifting, it destroys,” quoted in, Faithful History: Essays on Writing Mormon History, editor, George D. Smith, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1992), 76n22.
Thomas Stuart Ferguson, a California lawyer, church member and avid amateur archeologist, took the Egyptian papyri that was gifted to the church in 1967 to several Egyptologists at Berkeley, and as I recall Brown University and had them independently translated. All said the papyri were common funerary rites from the Book of the Dead. Ferguson then took their statements to apostle Hugh B. Brown, and after reviewing the evidence “with Brother Brown he said that Brother Brown agreed with him that it was not scripture …. that Hugh B. Brown did not believe the Book of Abraham was what the church said it was” (Journal entry of Ronald O. Barney concerning Thomas Stuart Ferguson on 19 April, 1984. Barney, now retired, worked at the LDS Library and Archives at Church headquarters, in Salt Lake City). Ferguson also said the same to Gerald and Sandra Tanner on December 2, 1970: “Mr. Ferguson had just visited with Mormon apostle Hugh B. Brown before coming to our house, and said that Brown has also come to the conclusion that the Book of Abraham was false” (Letter of Gerald Tanner to Dee Jay Nelson, December 10, 1970, published by Modern Microfilm Co., SLC, Utah).

Hmm…so what is the video about?

It is a Shawn McCraney Heart of the Matter video where he discusses a statement released by Grant Palmer last year. Marie posted the text of the Grant Palmer statement as read by Shawn McCraney in posts #7 and #8.

Is it any wonder why Mormons when they leave become agnostic and atheistic?

Such a violation of trust.
Like you said, even if it is remotely true, it’s spiritual abuse of the Mormon people. Down right abuse.

It’s shocking because of it’s abuse, the real thing, abuse, of the Mormon people.

That is why I still am raging.

I rage for the Mormon people who are being spiritually abused and taken advantage of.

I want to throw up. Seriously.

It actually makes me feel good.

I have said for years that there is no way the GAs could believe. There is a reason they do not excavate Cumorah. They MUST not believe. They HAVE to know it is false.

Now I find out they know it is false and it makes me feel good.

Not that I needed assurance, but it makes me even more certain (if that was possible) that it was God who led me out.

Further, the million dollars explains why they keep silent. Dollars to donuts that they sign something that says they must pay back the million should they ever come clean.

That part of it IS angering. But the ones who stay can know the truth…they refuse to try

also makes sense why we were told to never read anti-LDS material

I do expect that there some of the Mormon faithful who are completely and fully trusting, without question, that their leaders are men of complete integrity.

One of the risks of hierarchies, and we as Catholics see it too, is that you have men who are corrupt and liars…

They take advantage of the innocent and sincere people of simply faith. Never dreaming that their leaders are lying, bold face, to them.

That is why I am always remind of the 1st Commendment. No other Gods before God.

That includes ecclesial leaders.

The video itself is not manipulative. I believe Grant Palmer.

I believe the LDS church is abusive of its members. I am angry too. My family is still LDS and I am so angry that their souls are being abused. They are good people but they refuse to think outside the box and consider Mormonism might be false. I have to be quiet and be shunned. All I can do is pray for them.

I am so glad that there are people out there telling the truth like the Tanners, Grant Palmer and Shawn McCraney.


I can only imagine where you are at. I was the only LDS member in my family. I cant imaging knowing all of this, and having people I loved who were being spiritually abused in this way.

Makes me want to SPIT!

Will pray for your family, and all Mormons tonight. What an insidious evil.

No kidding. I believe it is a miracle when any ex-Mormon finds God. I completely understand why most ex-Mormons become atheist or agnostic. When I started RCIA, some of the team members and one of the deacons who have experience with Mormons acted like I was a walking miracle. I didn’t quite understand at the time, but now I do.

Thank you! I pray for the conversion of my family, Mormons and ex-Mormons every day. I feel so powerless to do anything because my family doesn’t want to hear anything I have to tell them. I am the oldest child and was always looked up to and respected in my family. Now I am anathema.

Now y’all have done it.

At first, I was just pleased. Felt good to hear what I have always thought.

But the more y’all post, the more it makes me think of my missionary companions, the Mormons I know. The good friends and families I know.

And how they blindly follow…

and how these “leaders” know they are blindly followed.

And now I am angry.


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