To Muslims: Who was Jesus Father?


#1

If Mohammed believe his Virgin birth, who was Jesus Father?

Pio


#2

I’ll save you the time. They will just say he has no father. It is only another demonstration of Allah’s supreme majesty or something like that.


#3

[quote=exoflare]I’ll save you the time. They will just say he has no father. It is only another demonstration of Allah’s supreme majesty or something like that.
[/quote]

Yes, we dont believe that Jesus had a father. I’m not sure where this is leading too?

Munawar


#4

[quote=Munawar]Yes, we dont believe that Jesus had a father. I’m not sure where this is leading too?

Munawar
[/quote]

I don’t know either. I just wanted to answer the guy’s question.


#5

Yes, we dont believe that Jesus had a father. I’m not sure where this is leading too?

Munawar

For those who will believe him, it will lead you the the Eternal Father.

Pio


#6

This is an interesting topic with regards to the origin of Jesus Christ.

As Christians, we believe that we all inherit the sin of our first parents, Adam and Eve. This is what we call original sin. Mary was preserved from original sin, such that the child born to her did not have that stain of sin. Sin is what makes us slaves of Satan, the author of sin and death. And only the Word of God, the Son who was with the Father from all eternity, came into the world and became man to free us from sin and death.

He was also tempted by Satan, but he triumph over him. And by becoming obedient unto death, even death on the cross, he ransomed us from sin, so that we might be one with Him in heaven. For anyone who believes in the Son will be saved. If the Son sets us free from sin and death, we will indeed be free.

We are not saved thru our works alone, but thru the grace of God, so that no one may boast. And this love of the Father is shown to us; such that while we are yet sinners, Christ died for us. So that anyone who believes in him may not perish, but will have everlasting life.

Pio


#7

[quote=hlgomez]This is an interesting topic with regards to the origin of Jesus Christ.

As Christians, we believe that we all inherit the sin of our first parents, Adam and Eve. This is what we call original sin. Mary was preserved from original sin, such that the child born to her did not have that stain of sin. Sin is what makes us slaves of Satan, the author of sin and death. And only the Word of God, the Son who was with the Father from all eternity, came into the world and became man to free us from sin and death.

He was also tempted by Satan, but he triumph over him. And by becoming obedient unto death, even death on the cross, he ransomed us from sin, so that we might be one with Him in heaven. For anyone who believes in the Son will be saved. If the Son sets us free from sin and death, we will indeed be free.

We are not saved thru our works alone, but thru the grace of God, so that no one may boast. And this love of the Father is shown to us; such that while we are yet sinners, Christ died for us. So that anyone who believes in him may not perish, but will have everlasting life.

Pio
[/quote]

Hey

wouldnt it be much easier and more aligned with the nature of God that he forgive Adam and Eve in the begining (He IS the Most Merciful)…no original sin, no need to be “saved” from a sin we didnt commit

wouldnt it be easier if we could receieve salvation through repentance to our Creator and not the brutal murder of an innocent man?

"Say: “O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful” (The Holy Quran 39:53)


#8

[quote=hlgomez]If Mohammed believe his Virgin birth, who was Jesus Father?
[/quote]

Jesus (PBUH) has no father, as Exoflare and Munawar said. That is the whole point of his virgin birth. God made it a sign for people to ponder how a human being could have no father. This was the first of many miracles God’s messenger possessed, and its purpose was to overcome the great disbelief of the Jews at the time.


#9

[quote=hlgomez]For those who will believe him, it will lead you the the Eternal Father.

Pio
[/quote]

I wonder if this will lead you to worshipping Adam too? Who is Adam’s father?

The Similitude of Jesus before God is that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: ‘Be’ and He was. Holy Quran 3:59

Jesus is simply the Word of God. His Command and Miracle to the Jews who were always reblious and disbelieved in him to the day.


#10

And what do you call this:

"For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God …
“Without father, without mother, without descent, having NEITHER BEGINNING of days, NOR END of life …” Hebrews 7:1-2


#11

[quote=Sw0rdD]And what do you call this:
[/quote]

Sw0rdD,
I call that a serious misuse of scripture! What St. Paul is talking about is the scriptural references to Melchizedek from Gen 18. Unlike all of the other kings listed in the Old Testament, we see a king suddenly spoken of who we’re not told of his mother or father, or his birth or death, and we’re told that Abraham gave such respect to this man that he gave a tenth of his goods as an offering to him. This is what is called a “type” or “prefigurement”. It is a “prophesy in history”, if you will. Melchizedek was a “type” of Christ. Old Testament “types” are always less than their New Testament fulfillment. Melchizedek was not given typical lineage or death in a literary sense - Christ had a very atypical lineage and a very atypical death - he rose again!

Adam was not sired - he was created. There was no mother - there could be no claim to a father. He was simply created from dust.

Jesus, however, was formed in a womb - he was physically begotten. Having a mother, one must certainly ask, “who is his father”? I believe we’re still waiting for a good explaination…

Peace be with you,
RyanL


#12

[quote=Shenango]Jesus (PBUH) has no father, as Exoflare and Munawar said. That is the whole point of his virgin birth. God made it a sign for people to ponder how a human being could have no father. This was the first of many miracles God’s messenger possessed, and its purpose was to overcome the great disbelief of the Jews at the time.
[/quote]

Mary didn’t have enough chromosomes to do the job herself. Who gave Jesus the other half of the chromosomes He needed to have life?

RyanL


#13

[quote=RyanL]Mary didn’t have enough chromosomes to do the job herself. Who gave Jesus the other half of the chromosomes He needed to have life?

RyanL
[/quote]

Hi Ryan,

The answer to your question, is the same answer to the question, “Adam didn’t have any chromosones to be created. Who gave Adam the ability to have life”?

Munawar


#14

[quote=Munawar]The answer to your question, is the same answer to the question, “Adam didn’t have any chromosones to be created. Who gave Adam the ability to have life”?
[/quote]

Munawar,
Thank you again for your demeanor in your posts. You speak with a level tongue, and it is a privelage to dialog with you.

Again, Adam was created out of dust. Adam did not resemble dust at the completion, and derived nothing but physical substance from it. Jesus, however, was created out of woman. Jesus quite probably looked like His mother, as many sons resemble their mothers. Jesus received His humanity (or at least *half *of it) from His mother. If Jesus was created like Adam, He would have received nothing from His mother - which would make her not really His mother, but rather a somewhat useful sack in which He was carried. I don’t think you believe this.

With that, I ask this: Where did the other half come from? Did God give Jesus the “other half”?

Peace be with you,
RyanL


#15

Hey

wouldnt it be much easier and more aligned with the nature of God that he forgive Adam and Eve in the begining (He IS the Most Merciful)…no original sin, no need to be “saved” from a sin we didnt commit

wouldnt it be easier if we could receieve salvation through repentance to our Creator and not the brutal murder of an innocent man?

"Say: “O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful” (The Holy Quran 39:53)

Faith101,

Hey too!

Of course we don’t inherit the personal sins of Adam and Eve, only the original sin. There is a radical difference there.

Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam.

Original sin is described not only as the death of the soul (Sess. V, can. ii), but as a “privation of justice that each child contracts at its conception” (Council of Trent).

In a child original sin is distinct from the fault of Adam, it is one of its effects. Death and Suffering are purely physical evils and cannot be called sin. Moreover St. Paul, and after him the councils, regarded death and original sin as two distinct things transmitted by Adam. The absence of sanctifying grace in the new-born child is also an effect of the first sin, for Adam, having received holiness and justice from God, lost it not only for himself but also for us. If he has lost it for us we were to have received it from him at our birth with the other prerogatives of our race. Therefore the absence of sanctifying grace in a child is a real privation, it is the want of something that should have been in him according to the Divine plan.

If this favour is not merely something physical but is something in the moral order, if it is holiness, its privation may be called a sin. But sanctifying grace is holiness and is so called by the Council of Trent, because holiness consists in union with God, and grace unites us intimately with God. Moral goodness consists in this that our action is according to the moral law, but grace is a deification, as the Fathers say, a perfect conformity with God who is the first rule of all morality.

Sanctifying grace therefore enters into the moral order, not as an act that passes but as a permanent tendency which exists even when the subject who possesses it does not act; it is a turning towards God. Consequently the privation of this grace, even without any other act, would be a stain, a moral deformity, a turning away from God, and this character is not found in any other effect of the fault of Adam. This privation, therefore, is the hereditary stain.

Pio


#16

Faith101,

Hey again!

The consequence of our sins requires no mere work of man to satisfy the justice of God. Sin deprives us of the glory of God, and its consequence is death. Just look at Adam who was forgiven by God, yet eventually died as a consequence of his sin. And all of us go though that cycle till the end of time.

Yet the Lord Jesus Christ, while we were yet sinners, died for us. That’s the penalty of our sins that he took for himself, by being obedient to the Father to the point of death, even death on the cross. That’s how he loved us and ransomed us from the author of death, Satan, who wants us to be dead for eternity. After Christ died, he went to the abode of the dead and preached the Gospels there, so that those who hear the voice of the Son of God might live, and then he rose again on the third day. Without the Resurrection of Christ Jesus, our faith will be in vain. There would be no hope. But thanks be to God, His Son rose again after he died.

Christ Jesus gave life back to us, by believing in Him who suffered for us, and being united with him at baptism and communion. So that by uniting with him who rose from the dead, we too will rise again with Him. Christ is the antidote for death. He is “the way, the truth, and the life.”

Pio


#17

[quote=hlgomez]Faith101,

Hey too!

Of course we don’t inherit the personal sins of Adam and Eve, only the original sin. There is a radical difference there.

Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam.

Original sin is described not only as the death of the soul (Sess. V, can. ii), but as a “privation of justice that each child contracts at its conception” (Council of Trent).

In a child original sin is distinct from the fault of Adam, it is one of its effects. Death and Suffering are purely physical evils and cannot be called sin. Moreover St. Paul, and after him the councils, regarded death and original sin as two distinct things transmitted by Adam. The absence of sanctifying grace in the new-born child is also an effect of the first sin, for Adam, having received holiness and justice from God, lost it not only for himself but also for us. If he has lost it for us we were to have received it from him at our birth with the other prerogatives of our race. Therefore the absence of sanctifying grace in a child is a real privation, it is the want of something that should have been in him according to the Divine plan.

If this favour is not merely something physical but is something in the moral order, if it is holiness, its privation may be called a sin. But sanctifying grace is holiness and is so called by the Council of Trent, because holiness consists in union with God, and grace unites us intimately with God. Moral goodness consists in this that our action is according to the moral law, but grace is a deification, as the Fathers say, a perfect conformity with God who is the first rule of all morality.

Sanctifying grace therefore enters into the moral order, not as an act that passes but as a permanent tendency which exists even when the subject who possesses it does not act; it is a turning towards God. Consequently the privation of this grace, even without any other act, would be a stain, a moral deformity, a turning away from God, and this character is not found in any other effect of the fault of Adam. This privation, therefore, is the hereditary stain.

Pio
[/quote]

Hey :smiley:

I really dont understand what you are trying to say here…can you please put it in simpler terms? Thank you!


#18

[quote=hlgomez]Faith101,

Hey again!

The consequence of our sins requires no mere work of man to satisfy the justice of God. Sin deprives us of the glory of God, and its consequence is death. Just look at Adam who was forgiven by God, yet eventually died as a consequence of his sin. And all of us go though that cycle till the end of time.

Yet the Lord Jesus Christ, while we were yet sinners, died for us. That’s the penalty of our sins that he took for himself, by being obedient to the Father to the point of death, even death on the cross. That’s how he loved us and ransomed us from the author of death, Satan, who wants us to be dead for eternity. After Christ died, he went to the abode of the dead and preached the Gospels there, so that those who hear the voice of the Son of God might live, and then he rose again on the third day. Without the Resurrection of Christ Jesus, our faith will be in vain. There would be no hope. But thanks be to God, His Son rose again after he died.

Christ Jesus gave life back to us, by believing in Him who suffered for us, and being united with him at baptism and communion. So that by uniting with him who rose from the dead, we too will rise again with Him. Christ is the antidote for death. He is “the way, the truth, and the life.”

Pio
[/quote]

I disagree with many things you said in your post.

  1. God DOES have the ability to forgive ALL sins without any reason. He does not need a scapegoat or a sacrifice on the part of any human being, let alone all of mankind…it is just not fair. I doubt that you would accept this kind of “justice” in the US court systems (1 person commiting the crime, another punished for it)

  2. THe author of death is not Satan. He doesnt have ANY power, all he does is suggest for us to do something bad, and if we are not strong in faith, we do it. The author of death is God. To him we belong and to Him is our return.

I’d like to point out that Muslims dont believe that it is man’s WORK that gets him into Heaven. No one will enter heaven but by the mercy of God.

It just makes sense. Repent for your own personal sin, be forgiven. No blood involved.


#19

[quote=RyanL]Munawar,
Thank you again for your demeanor in your posts. You speak with a level tongue, and it is a privelage to dialog with you.

Again, Adam was created out of dust. Adam did not resemble dust at the completion, and derived nothing but physical substance from it. Jesus, however, was created out of woman. Jesus quite probably looked like His mother, as many sons resemble their mothers. Jesus received His humanity (or at least *half *of it) from His mother. If Jesus was created like Adam, He would have received nothing from His mother - which would make her not really His mother, but rather a somewhat useful sack in which He was carried. I don’t think you believe this.

With that, I ask this: Where did the other half come from? Did God give Jesus the “other half”?
[/quote]

This is a very good question Ryan, but contrary to your reasoning, Muslims believe that Jesus (PBUH) was created exactly like Adam (PBUH), out of dust. Look at this verse in the Qur’an:

Qur’an 3:59

The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be”. And he was.

So Mary in Islam is more like a surrogate mother, and not a biological one. The other half of Jesus’ genes are not from God because his first half isn’t from his mother’s to begin with.

Hope this helps.


#20

[quote=Shenango]So Mary in Islam is more like a surrogate mother, and not a biological one. The other half of Jesus’ genes are not from God because his first half isn’t from his mother’s to begin with.

Hope this helps.
[/quote]

Shenango,

Yes, that helps very much! I had no idea that Muslims believed that Jesus was created apart from Mary, making her no more Jesus’ mother than Joseph was His father. It seems strange, then, that He would be referred to throughout the Qur’an as the son of Mary, and not the son of Joseph. If neither had anything to do with Him biologically, why would He not be given the “-bar-” title of His father? Why is it not Jesus bar Joseph, if Joseph holds just as much relation to Jesus as Mary? Perhaps it’s my western thinking, but isn’t it disgraceful to refer to someone as the seed of their mother? Especially since she didn’t have anything to do with it in the first place?

Peace be with you,
RyanL


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.