To posters who responded to the "good person" thread

Those on this forum would probably not be aware
of this. AV 1611 is obviously a “student” of the Way
of the Master series as taught by Ray Comfort (Hell’s Best
Kept Secrets) and Kirk Cameron (of the TV show Family Matters and the Left Behind Series.
For ‘sharing one’s faith’ evangelical style, I kind of like it compared
with the Evangelism Explosion method which will take
scripture way out of context i.e. 1 John 5:13
"These things are written so that you may know that you have eternal life.
From a protestant/evangelical standpoint, WOTM is a good way
of dealing with those who are self-righteous, non believing, etc.
I wish I had seen this earlier, and I could have saved some of you some grief, and time.
This AV poster’s biggest problem is that he’s somewhat a rookie, and, I would think it would be obvious from his statements,
steeped in ignorance.
I’m only posting this because usually Way of the Master
’students’ (of which I was one), those that are reasonably deft at it wouldn’t be going on to forums to bait people. This is a very easy
to learn tool to actually go out into the world in everyday situations to “share your faith”.
Note that buried somewhat inside of their teaching though, as in just about anything that has evangelical roots, there is a shred of anti-Catholicism. In EE, of which I am ‘certified’ to train others,
I found out there are advanced levels, one of them being how to witness to those who are Catholic.

I could go on with some experiences I went through while doing my EE training, but I won’t.

Just all of you know that ignorance is behind AV’s kind of posting and again, he’s probably young and has one of those techiniques that should carry the label “Don’t try this at home”.

Ironically, if I wasn’t in the middle of my “Journey Home”, I would
probably think there was nothing wrong with his post, other than his amateur technique (bad witness).
Be charitable, and forgiving, (as I know you already are).

Boy it gets more painful to be in this limbo position of
having to remain where I am right now for career/financial reasons,
but knowing in my heart, even if not totally in my mind, where Spirit and Truth are.

I thank God everyday for those on these forums, and sites like
Catholic Answers, CHnetwork, EWTN, and many others.
You are all in my prayers… with gratitude.

In Him,
Jeff

Hi Jeff B.

I appreciate the heads-up. I hadn’t heard of this group before. sigh Just one more A/C group. God have mercy on us all.
Why is hatred such a great source of religious satisfaction?

For the most part, it’s not so anti-Catholic, but like
anything Protestant based, there’s always a shred.
It can’t be helped. Nature of the beast (ironic term, huh?)

Jeff

[quote=Jeff_B]Note that buried somewhat inside of their teaching though, as in just about anything that has evangelical roots, there is a shred of anti-Catholicism. In EE, of which I am ‘certified’ to train others,
I found out there are advanced levels, one of them being how to witness to those who are Catholic.
[/quote]

:hmmm: I wonder why, maybe some believe that Catholics don’t read their Bible, we do but we don’t ram it down peoples throats.
You can bet your life that if something comes from God, then there will be great opposition to it.

[quote] Just all of you know that ignorance is behind AV’s kind of posting and again, he’s probably young and has one of those techiniques that should carry the label “Don’t try this at home”.

:stuck_out_tongue: glad you have a sense of humor, Christians need a sense of humor, Yep God love him, brain-washed again by these self styled fire and brimstone preachers.

Ironically, if I wasn’t in the middle of my “Journey Home”, I would
probably think there was nothing wrong with his post, other than his amateur technique (bad witness).
Be charitable, and forgiving, (as I know you already are).

Hey maybe you need to get a first class ticket, just kidding welcome home brother.
[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up Jeff…I already knew the guy was up to no good…spreading anti-Catholic garbage around…I hope vulnerable people don’t read his nonsense and get “converted” LOL :slight_smile: I don’t understand it…as Catholics…we love our Protestant Brethren and we pray for their conversion to Catholicism and we know they will see us in the promised land…however, our protestant counterparts preach we are the “Whore of Babylon” and our Pope is the “Anti-Christ”…I just find it strange there is so much hatred in their religion…

[quote=Jeff_B]Those on this forum would probably not be aware
of this. AV 1611 is obviously a “student” of the Way
of the Master series as taught by Ray Comfort (Hell’s Best
Kept Secrets) and Kirk Cameron (of the TV show Family Matters and the Left Behind Series.
For ‘sharing one’s faith’ evangelical style, I kind of like it compared
with the Evangelism Explosion method which will take
scripture way out of context i.e. 1 John 5:13
"These things are written so that you may know that you have eternal life.
From a protestant/evangelical standpoint, WOTM is a good way
of dealing with those who are self-righteous, non believing, etc.
I wish I had seen this earlier, and I could have saved some of you some grief, and time.
This AV poster’s biggest problem is that he’s somewhat a rookie, and, I would think it would be obvious from his statements,
steeped in ignorance.
I’m only posting this because usually Way of the Master
’students’ (of which I was one), those that are reasonably deft at it wouldn’t be going on to forums to bait people. This is a very easy
to learn tool to actually go out into the world in everyday situations to “share your faith”.
Note that buried somewhat inside of their teaching though, as in just about anything that has evangelical roots, there is a shred of anti-Catholicism. In EE, of which I am ‘certified’ to train others,
I found out there are advanced levels, one of them being how to witness to those who are Catholic.

I could go on with some experiences I went through while doing my EE training, but I won’t.

Just all of you know that ignorance is behind AV’s kind of posting and again, he’s probably young and has one of those techiniques that should carry the label “Don’t try this at home”.

Ironically, if I wasn’t in the middle of my “Journey Home”, I would
probably think there was nothing wrong with his post, other than his amateur technique (bad witness).
Be charitable, and forgiving, (as I know you already are).

Boy it gets more painful to be in this limbo position of
having to remain where I am right now for career/financial reasons,
but knowing in my heart, even if not totally in my mind, where Spirit and Truth are.

I thank God everyday for those on these forums, and sites like
Catholic Answers, CHnetwork, EWTN, and many others.
You are all in my prayers… with gratitude.

In Him,
Jeff
[/quote]

I too am glad for the additional information. Although, as you say, it is obvious that he is inexperience it is my prayer that he doesn’t shoot and run but stays around long enough to find the truth.

Kirk Cameron wasn’t on Family Matters. He was on Growing Pains.

LOL…same difference though…both of them were terrible :slight_smile:

[quote=Brown10985]Kirk Cameron wasn’t on Family Matters. He was on Growing Pains.
[/quote]

[quote=dumspirospero]LOL…same difference though…both of them were terrible :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I’m only posting this because usually Way of the Master
’students’ (of which I was one), those that are reasonably deft at it wouldn’t be going on to forums to bait people. This is a very easy
to learn tool to actually go out into the world in everyday situations to “share your faith”.
Note that buried somewhat inside of their teaching though, as in just about anything that has evangelical roots, there is a shred of anti-Catholicism. In EE, of which I am ‘certified’ to train others,
I found out there are advanced levels, one of them being how to witness to those who are Catholic.

Hmmm. What do you do, go in as a poser? That is very deceitful of you!
I suppose you think it is okay to pretend you are something you are not? Not a good plan according to what God says in His Word. God says in His Word there is a place for those like that.

[quote=New Heart]Hmmm. What do you do, go in as a poser? That is very deceitful of you!
I suppose you think it is okay to pretend you are something you are not? Not a good plan according to what God says in His Word. God says in His Word there is a place for those like that.
[/quote]

Go in where as a poser? I’m thinking you skimmed my post rather quickly as you’ve missed the context and point of my post.
It is because of my past and relatively recent experience as someone who as gone through these programs that enables me to recognize where AV1611 was coming from, and therefore wanted to alert other posters on this forum, so that they wouldn’t waste the energy responding to his pedestrian attempt at baiting in his self-deceiving attempt to witness. In fact, I think it would be better for all to learn to discern whether someone is posting to bait or atagonize, or whether they are steeoed in misunderstanding. That way no one would be caught up in responding in kind, and ignore, or when they respond in love and actually be a good witness through education and the like.
That’s why responses such as 'we have the truth, deposit of faith, and the like won’t go very far to those who are zealously convinced in their own theology. For example, as I am slowly absorbing some of the truths of the Catholic faith, it can only be done in stages. It took me a while to start understanding, for instance, what the Catholic Mass was all about. As I began to shed my own anti-Catholic bias, which is not unlike peeling an onion one layer at a time, I started by at least allowing that it was a Catholic distinctive–different from how we would conduct a service, but at least I wouldn’t look at it from the slanderous and sometimes malicious viewpoint that a lot of Protestants would characterize it as. I then began learning different things about it, such as the fact that the Real Presence has been held to even from the early days of the Church. But even now, its really starting to come alive for me, as I am going through Scott Hahn’s “Lamb of God” series, and when I can catch it, Our Father’s Plan currently on EWTN. It is really becoming illuminated for me, and I think they way Dr Hahn is weaving the whole of Scripture, especially in Revelation, to show what the Mass really is is nothing but brilliant. In fact, I’m even forwarding some of his teachings to people who have been Catholic their whole lives and themselves, don’t fully appreciate the Mass.

That’s only a small example of how understanding needs to unfold, and that’s why those who are going to be apologetic about their faith need to be discerning, but also understanding, and yes, longsuffering and nurturing to those whom you discern as deceived through no fault of their own, yet are seeking God’s truth as they have been taught, or understand it to be.

Now, as to your pretending or not part of your question, I don’t pretend to be anything. My job/position at my church prevents me from being too open or overt as to the journey I’m on, and also, I’m only on the journey. I have some things to work out in my own mind, still, and learn, and I’ve never been one to plunge into anything. But even still, in conversations with my brethren, I do take opportunity to enlighten those who come out with what I perceive as almost-slander against Catholics, or the church, with what little understanding I do have, in the hope that maybe, someone’s eyes or hearts will crack open just a little. It is a little ironic that someone in my position is somewhat of a lay-apologist about something I have so much growth to go in. When I first became a Christian, I used to think that the biggest problem with Christians (Prot/Evang) was anti-Semitism, due, of course to ignorance primarily. In conversations, I since(with the Holy Spirit doing the work) have realized that the bigger problem is anti-Catholicism, which was the spark for me to find out the other sides of issues.

If you were trying to indicate that as someone using EE or WOTM as witnessing tools, that I was deceitful, you are off on that mark as well. I actually incorporate both, as well, but I don’t go down any avenue that is pointed at Catholicism, or other Christians for that matter, whatsoever.
When I was getting my certification for teaching in MD, I went out with a team and one woman we visited was a Catholic (didn’t know that at first). When towards the end of our conversation, she said. "Hmmm, after talking with you I realize I should be going back to church. To my trainer’s probable dismay, I encouraged her to not only to do that, but make sure she starts with confession. As we were leaving my trainer yells back, "Make sure you verify what we said in your “Catholic” bible. I turned walked all the way back and apologized to her, and had to have an uncomfortable conversation with him about except for those ‘disputed’ books, it’s the same Bible! Point is, he only knows what he knows, like most, and if people’s understandings are wrong, they must be unlearned. It’s a de-tox process, for sure, and it must be done without polemics. Heck, even on these forums, and others, I’ve seen polemical discussions between those who claim the same faith. Human nature is human nature.
No matter what the issue is, divides usually can’t be leaped accross if they’re wide, you can only cross by first building a bridge.

Unless , of course it’s only water , and one is a champion swimmer. Sharks? Sorry, I don’t believe in sharks, but that’s just water under a … well never mind, I hope my point is now taken.
God Bless,
Jeff

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