[quote=Christopher]I didn’t say the Church infallibly taught that it was ok to enslave the Indians. So don’t put words in my mouth or muddy the waters, thanks. The issue is that the Church can and does make mistakes, and I get sick of hearing how it doesn’t from my own people.
I will oblige you with one item and show how the Greeks were once damned for not being subject to the Pope. I happen to have this handy due to another thread.
Boniface VIII’s Papal Bull ‘Unam Sanctam’
November 18, 1302
Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles (Sgs 6:8) proclaims: “One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her”, and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God (1 Cor 11:3). In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism (Eph 4:5). There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.
Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John “there is one sheepfold and one shepherd”.
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
First I didnt put anything in your mouth, you responded to my statement that the Church cannot err on matters of faith and morals with your thing about Indians. My claim was limited to faith and morals and is also limited to infallible statements. The whole reason for the thread is to show that when the Church teaches “infallibly” on matters of faith and morals, she cannot be proven to be false, never, not once in history. You were the one that chose to throw in non-infallible statements on things other than faith and morals. It is very easy to list mistakes made by the Church or memebers within the Church, that is not what is at issue; I am talking about Doctrines of the Faith, which all memebers of the Church are obligated to accept at least implicitly.
In reference to ‘Unam Sanctam’; you have given us one half of the point you wish to prove so I will wait until we get the other half of your argument before I respond; also because I am buying myself time to do some research!