Today's Gospel and "Translated as" - - a pet peeve of mine


#1

So here is Today’s Gospel…
John was standing with two of his disciples,and as he watched Jesus walk by, he said,“Behold, the Lamb of God.”
The two disciples heard what he said and followed Jesus. Jesus turned and saw them following him and said to them,“What are you looking for?”
They said to him, “Rabbi” — which translated means Teacher —,“where are you staying?”
He said to them, “Come, and you will see.” So they went and saw where Jesus was staying,and they stayed with him that day.
It was about four in the afternoon. Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter, was one of the two who heard John and followed Jesus.
He first found his own brother Simon and told him, “We have found the Messiah” — which is translated Christ —. Then he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon the son of John; you will be called
Cephas” — which is translated Peter
.
I’ve bolded the three “translations” included in the text.

Note that “Rabbi” is translated into English, 'Teacher" but "Messiah is translated into an English pronunciation of the Greek words Christo and Petros…:shrug:

Wouldn’t it have been more clear if they had been consistent?"
"We have found the Messiah” — which is translated Savior.
"you will be called Cephas” — which is translated Rock.

:shrug:

Like I say - This is something of a pet peeve of mine…

Peace
James


#2

You will need to take this up with the evangelist John when you get to heaven, because it is translated this way in the Greek also. :slight_smile:


#3

Ah - but you see in the Greek text it makes sense. John is translating Hebrew - or Aramaic into Greek and he is consistent in doing so.
The Hebrew, Rabbi is translated into the Greek…διδάσκαλος = did-as’-kal-os = teacher.
The Hebrew, Messiah is translated into the Greek…Χριστός = khris-tos’ = anointed one.
The Aramaic, Cephas is translated into the Greek…Πέτρος = pet’-ros = a rock.

So John is consistent. I don’t think that John is answerable for why those who translated his Greek into our English chose to be inconsistent in their method.

Peace
James


#4

I just gave you the translations of those Greek words that are in my Greek
interlinear translation and checked with Strong’s Concordance. I don’t know Greek myself.


#5

We often get too hung up on the literal and literary sense of scripture instead of the spiritual.

See CCC 115-119.

When I get frustrated with the literal, I shift immediately to the anagogical sense.

Doing so, might bring you comfort, and relieve your angst.

Peace


#6

Here we see what happens when they lack the enlightenment that Internet discussion forums like catholic.com give to us.


#7

:hmmm:


#8

“if”


#9

Who’s “they”? Take ten translators, you may get ten different translations. And if you ask them the next day, you may get ten more. Doesn’t matter the language. Translation is an art more than a science.


#10

And yet - every translation that I consulted does the exact same thing.
This includes ones that are so called “literal translations”.

So it seems that one does NOT get ten different translations in this case… at least not in English…In this case there is but one translation.

Go figure…

Peace
James


#11

The same thing struck my wife and I today as well. I’ve must have heard this gospel many times but it never occurred to me why do they translate the first time into English and the second two times they leave it in Greek.


#12

Yes - - Glad I’m not the only one…

Baptize is another term that is left in the Greek. :hmmm:

Peace
James


#13

I wasn’t smart enough to know the translations were all different, but I did wish Peter had been translated rock. It makes a big difference in understanding why Jesus changed his name. At least to simple laymen like myself.


#14

:hmmm:

Hmm… I’m not seeing your objection. The “second two times,” they didn’t “leave it in Greek”!

If it were in Greek, then it would be ‘Christos’ and ‘Petros’. That’s not what they did – they translated ‘Christos’ into the English ‘Christ’ and ‘Petros’ into the English ‘Peter’.


#15

Granted - they are the English versions of the Greek terms. And I will further grant that “Christ” is generally understood in English as meaning Messiah - anointed one…

But “Peter” is most defintely NOT the English word for either Cephas OR Petros. I know of no one who picks up a rock and says - “Wow look at this interesting Peter”. :wink:
Do you???

Just sayin’…

Peace
James


#16

So I guess we can put to rest this business about

"We have found the Messiah” — which is translated Savior.


#17

Yup - that was my bad in the OP…:blushing:


#18

:cool:


#19

Maybe not in this case but I can probably find a few cases where St. Jerome, Cicero and others, all brilliant Greek scholars, who would probably come up with different Latin, not to mention English. So who are the official Greek scholars on this one? I hope one of them isn’t Homer. :slight_smile:

Or perhaps there are different Greek versions of this as well. Since we don’t have the originals, very possible.


#20

It’s precisely the English version of the name ‘Cephas’ or ‘Petros’. If the context had been ‘kepha’ or ‘petros’, I’d be with you; but that’s not the context. The context is a name, and the name is translated for us. :shrug:


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.