Today's reading "Not to Judge" or can we?

I often said to non-Catholics we are allowed to judge people on actions but not on heaven and Hell. Today in mass I heard the reading (Reading 2 Jas 5:7-10), “Make your hearts firm,because the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not complain, brothers and sisters, about one another, that you may not be judged.”

Jimmy Akins said,

  1. Not a prohibition on admonishing others

Jesus did also not intend his words to be used to stop others from admonishing others when they are committing sinful behavior.

Jesus himself told his ministers:

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you [Matt. 28:19-20Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)].

That would include teaching his commands regarding sexual morality.

Also, admonishing sinners is a spiritual work of mercy that we are to engage in:

My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins [Jas. 5:19-20Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)].

jimmyakin.com/2013/08/what-did-jesus-mean-when-he-said-not-to-judge-others-10-things-to-know-and-share.html

My question is can we judge others action and declare them not within Jesus teachings or do we have to not judge and let the Lord judge bad actions at the end times?

Right - to reprove the works of darkness or not? Depends on who you talk to.

How we can we ‘judge’ the evil of war? Deportation of undocumented workers? Owning a gun? Not sure, but, believe me, it is a-ok. I think that is being a good Christian. Just use the word mercy a whole lot. So, the moral of the story is - yes, you can judge some stuff, certain offenders, bash 'em over the head with a figurative baseball bat…and, NO, others you cannot touch. The good news is it is super easy to figure out which is which. No brainer.

I look at that Gospel verse as a command not to complain and be patient with others. We can judge evil, we do that all the time and is neccessary.

But we also much let the sinner know they are sinning, how else would it be possible to bring them back if they do not recognize or believe they are sinning in the first place? This is the tough part though, its easy to spot someone sinning but to try to make them recognize it is sin…well, many will probably hate us for even attempting this, but then again, I think Jesus said we would be hated as he was, so…

Scripture tells us to judge.

See John 7:24

I think you can judge actions, but not people. Like what you did was wrong, but I don’t know if you knew that or are doing it on purpose. Also, you can’t be pushy. You’re supposed to preach to those who want to hear you. If you waste time trying to teach someone who’s not interested you’ll miss someone who is interested.

Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven
Luke 6:37

If any place will not welcome you and they refuse to hear you, as you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them.”
Mark 6:11

How we can we ‘judge’ the evil of war? Deportation of undocumented workers? Owning a gun? Not sure, but, believe me, it is a-ok. I think that is being a good Christian.

  1. We judged to kill Osama bin laden, Anwar Awlaki and special forces are order to assassinate without questioning for the good of our country. The Catholic church has the “just war doctrine”. The Catholic church says we can use the death penalty (if we can not contain the criminal).

  2. The Catholic church teaches to respect the laws of the land. Those that are illegally here I believe in the eyes of the Catholic church are in Venial Sin.

  3. Many of our religious leaders including Pope Francis live today because guns protect them. There are many stories of women faced with over whelming odds protecting themselves with a gun.

Italy Deports Muslim Planning Bomb Attack in Vatican
By Pamela Geller - on December 11, 2016

“NO, others you cannot touch.” What would these be?

I think you can judge actions, but not people. Like what you did was wrong,

Does not the bible say we will be judged by the friuts of our actions?

Matthew 7:16
“You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?”

Leviticus 19:15
Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

Proverbs 31:9
Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

This where we get tripped up judging others but not willing to aviod the same sin ourselves. Romans 2:1-3 “3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?”

But then I can ask, but who are you to judge correctly? Do you really have the knowledge or “authority” to even make that call? What do you really know except what you think or have been told? What makes your judgment better or more authoritative then another, or mine against you? Some of us may think we have it all figured out and I guess that is our right, but let us be honest, we are all embryos in this large world :slight_smile:

I am a Catholic, blessed with the grace of the sacraments, given the gift of discernment applied to one’s intellect.

Incidentally, if this really is your mantra, that you can’t be comfortable in your ability to judge correctly, how could you even discern whether Christianity is the truth, as opposed to Islam, or Judaism, or atheism?

After all, who are you to judge correctly?

What does judging mean?

blog.adw.org/2010/06/correcti…rk-of-charity/

blog.adw.org/2009/11/fraterna…gotten-virtue/

catholic.com/quickquestions/is-it-judgmental-to-point-out-someones-error

How are we to help our brother? *(and he us) (from Pope Benedict XVI): vatican.va/holy_father/be…t-2012_en.html

(start second paragraph)

That being said - one gives also the “benefit of the doubt” and as the Catechism notes:

2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.280

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a8.htm#IV

(I give that as a general aspect for us always to follow.)

Giving the benefit of the doubt though does not mean that one turns a blind eye or ignores what has been done or said.

And that does not mean though that one cannot or ought not judge in terms of your choices that being around the person is not the way to go etc. Done of course with love.

And yes pray and sacrifice *(as Our Lady of Fatima asked–for sinners)

But then I can ask, but who are you to judge correctly? Do you really have the knowledge or “authority” to even make that call?

Based on your thinking we would not be able to fight for the unborn because…well we just can not judge. Of course, we are to judge but not condemn, to speak out but not to whip the person in the final judgment. If we can not get others to agree they we let the law pass judgment but we accuse and bring before the courts of the land.

If our judgment is not valid in the courts we can pressure the lawmakers to pass just laws.

Is the Christian way of morality better the Islam? Shinto and Buddhism? When the foundering fathers looked at all of these and built the nation on Christina principals why because they were the closest to LOVE.

Islam is submission not Love.

You must understand I am somewhat perplexed how this reply immediately made its way to abortion and radical Islamism. I see numerous times on this forums that conversations would jump from one extreme to the other without even thinking about the original reply, but okay, for now I’ll go ahead…

Bringing up abortion so quickly isn’t nice. You know that is not what was meant and totally ridiculous in this sense. I have seen so many times (for reasons I am still unsure about) how a thread ends up being a discussion on abortion when it was never intended. Let’s end this for now, please, else we are going nowhere. I can just imagine my three very cool Mulsim co-workers looking at me tomorrow when I say “Your religion is submission, NOT love”. Not cool! I can also come up with something to derail you and you will just think I am ridiculous.

To the second part, do you honestly feel even a fraction of people, being Catholic or Protestant, really know the difference between Judge and Condemn? I am not saying I always do, hence my original response. And as I stated, maybe you/anyone think they have it all figured out, well that’s good, I just realise I don’t!

And not to burst your bubble and also not my “Founding Fathers” but maybe have a clearer look into “their” religious beliefs and even democratic thoughts. It seems it will be interesting to you.

Regards

Like I said, “some of us may think we have it all figured out, and that is our right”

I prefer to thank God firstly that I am Christian (every chance I get), my “Intellectual Judgment” in this regard would be secondary. But you know pretty well that kind of judgment was never the intent of this thread. Just a way of derailing me.

This post has a delicious irony–it sounds like you’re objecting to folks thinking that they have it figured out…while, inadvertently, and amusingly, declaring that you have figured it all out. :smiley:

Not sure why you’re reserving for yourself what you object to in others?

Actually, I’m not quite sure exactly what your definition of “judgement” is.

Are you saying that you made the right judgement to say yes to Christ? And that you’re comfortable with your ability to discern that this was the correct path to choose?

If so, I agree with you. :thumbsup:

However, the Muslim would use your own paradigm and throw it back at you and say: “But who are you to judge correctly?”

My understanding is that we can judge actions, but we cannot judge the state of someone’s soul…

I see you follow an interesting methodology of sidetracking a reply and then try to turn it over on to the other person.

Let us backtrack to the original reply from me. And I will really try to spell it out as clearly as I can.

Just because you say or think you are right, does not make you right. You seem old enough that you should understand this. In most of your posts you speak with such “authority” and it is apparent in these ones as well. I am not saying you can’t, go ahead and do that, that is your right. But thinking with all your correct certainty you may have, that does not automatically make you right. You could be, that’s not totally impossible. Hence my question (the original one) when you come up to someone with all the authority you presume to have and say he/she is wrong, they can ask “well who are you again?”. Or maybe approach it a bit differently like your Catechism states in 2478. Point is, think a bit and do introspection before you go an a judging rampage. If more people don’t presume to know everything, maybe a few of the worlds problems can already be solved.

Or again as I said “maybe you have it all figured out” and you are a person who can just judge correctly? Personally as a human, I just realise I am a normal human being with all my shortcomings.

If you feel like you want to reply, keep on topic, I would appreciate that greatly :slight_smile:

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