Tonight's Gospel


#1

Tonight’s Gospel was about when Jesus took Peter, John and James up a mountain and His clothing became dazzling white. (Luke9:28b -36). Peter John and James had fallen asleep. Could this have been a dream or not, because it’s impossible for three people to have the same dream?


#2

If three people shared a dream, that would have been equally miraculous as the transfiguration of a body!

The fact that all 3 of them saw, yet seemed to know where they were, suggests this was not in fact a dream, but even if it were, it remains a miracle.

ICXC NIKA


#3

It is more like a trance state, like that of the children at Fatima


#4

At church it was read that Peter and his companions had been overcome by sleep, but becoming fully awake, they saw His (Jesus) glory and the two men standing with Him.

How is that a trance?


#5

Could it have been a dream? You said even if it were…


#6

No one can prove it wasn’t; but dreams just don’t get shared between heads; so if that did occur it would have been a miracle.

ICXC NIKA


#7

Especially not three heads, right?


#8

True, the more heads, the more unlikely. :):slight_smile:


#9

Anyone else want to chime in?


#10

How do we know Jesus was dazzling white and it wasn’t a dream since they were asleep?


#11

There are states described in scripture where people are overcome in the presence of God.

17When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, Rev 1:17

5They answered Him, “Jesus the Nazarene.” He said to them, “I am He.” And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them. 6So when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground. Hohn 18:6

So I was left alone and saw this great vision; yet no strength was left in me, for my natural color turned to a deathly pallor, and I retained no strength. 9But I heard the sound of his words; and as soon as I heard the sound of his words, I fell into a deep sleep on my face, with my face to the ground. Daniel 10:9

This last scripture about falling into a “deep sleep” makes it clear that it was brought on by an encounter with the Holy. It is not a natural sleep, and the state was interrupted when the angel touched Daniel.

This phenomenon has occurred in the Charismatic Renewal, where it is sometimes called “asleep in the Spirit”. It is a state of intense awareness of the presence of God, but one in which the natural strength of a person dissolves so that they fall to the ground and lie there as if asleep.


#12

So how do we know they didn’t dream the whole thing?


#13

I just read the account of the Transfiguration in Matthew, Mark and Luke. None mention the guys being asleep. What version of scripture was being read at the Mass you attended? When Jesus allowed them to glimpse His glory, the were wide awake as these accounts state.:slight_smile:


#14

Luke.


#15

I don’t know but it’s also in The Word Among Us.


#16

Anyone else?


#17

To clarify, it says “after becoming fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men standing with Him”,
But I wonder if they weren’t fully awake and were dreaming?


#18

Anyone?


#19

As has been noted, if they did, then it would still be miraculous.

It is important that we not project into history our current scientific understanding about sleep. Modern research has revealed that humans do not dream until they reach a state of REM sleep. We also understand states of consciousness (or unconsciousness) much differently than those who were writing the Scriptures. What might look like “sleep” on the outside may be a very different inner experience.

“I was asleep but my heart was awake” Song of Sol 5:2

At times we are not conscious to the temporal reality of this present world but we are very “awake” to the spiritual realm. In such a state, we might describe ourselves, or appear to others to be “asleep”.


#20

. Modern research has revealed that humans do not dream until they reach a state of REM sleep.

Not according to WebMD. :slight_smile:

ICXC NIKA


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