I was flicking through my step-brothers Top Trumps cards he got for Christmas. The theme was Horrible Histories ‘most cruel rulers’ and guess who turned up? Let me quote it:
Pope Urban II wanted to win back the Jerusalem of the Christian Church. So he said to the knights of Europe, “Hey, God won’t mind if you kill Arabs to get Jerusalem. In fact, he’ll love you!”. So the murderous Crusades started. Would the Christians win? Nope, the Pope was a dope.
His evil rating is 18/20, just 2 less than Hitler.
So, the anti-Catholicism really is starting to get out of hand!
Generally because if a secular organisation bring up the Crusades, they try to pin all the evils that happend in the Crusades on the Catholic Church, when the Muslims threw the first stone by being the first aggressor, and the attempted invasion of Europe.
While noone can deny the Church did committ great evils during the Crusades, what Western society is in denial over is that the Muslim countries commited great evils aswell, political correctness in the west means pretty much anything we admit we did evils, but deny anyone not from western society committed any evils, and we only tell the bad side of our history (atleast the UK) and ignore the great things we done, even though they were at the expense of other nations.
The UK was for a long time an effectively anti-Catholic state so drawing and equivalence between that state and the Church would be very dubious. The British Empire was not the worst empire ever seen in world history but at it’s low points it did sink very low indeed.
Yeah. And as I said in my post I COMPLETELY AGREE when people are just using the crusades and inquisition to bash Catholics. I AGREE THERE.
Blown out of proportion? Well, yeah. Seeing how life generally was back then, everything should be taken in comparison. Those were rough times to live in, no matter what side you were on. People were brutal.
I mean, here in modern times we paint pictures of say, Vlad The Impaler: Horrible, sadistic ruler… But hey, he wasn’t the only guy impaling his enemies. Besides. There were worse methods of medieval execution. Like, say, sawing. D:
Likewise, comparing what the Catholic Church did at the time to everything else going on out there? No. It’s not too huge in comparison… It was a rough world to live it.
But it still ain’t good Christian behavior by any means. It’s still atrocious. Especially recruiting for said crusades.
I KNOW the anti-Catholic people use it as one of their many slaps to the Catholic faith, but it STILL isn’t a high point in the history of Christianity.
There’s been genuine corruption in our past, on a fairly large scale.
We’re only human. Pretending something didn’t happen doesn’t make it go away. Likewise, dwelling on it, and not forgiving ain’t too snazy either.
Suni Moon with all due respect, you sound like someone who hasn’t quite reached the full understanding of the crusades, nor have you understood the real history of these "atrocities’’. Secular society loves to use that kind of language while calling modern soldiers superheros. Secular society loves to say we were wrong in defending the world against Islam but that America is the worlds savior in the contemporary. Secular society tells us that because a few people and some clergymen made mistakes and perhaps committed unecessary evil that the institution itself is evil. That kind of reasoning has also been applied recently with the sex scandals and it is just ridiculous. Whenever you ask someone to realise that if that line of reasoning is true then every institution in the world is evil and ‘supportive’ of crime, watch them go straight to the insult and call you a peadophile enabler.
Too many double standards, too much false history, too many half truths.
[quote=Top Trumps card]Pope Urban II wanted to win back the Jerusalem of the Christian Church. So he said to the knights of Europe, “Hey, God won’t mind if you kill Arabs to get Jerusalem. In fact, he’ll love you!”. So the murderous Crusades started. Would the Christians win? Nope, the Pope was a dope.
Although the first Crusade can be faulted on some grounds (for example, attacks on Jews) what the card claims isn’t historically accurate.
First, many Arabs were (and are) Christian, so killing Arabs was not considered pleasing to God. Second, the first Crusade actually achieved its objectives. The pressure on the Byzantine Empire from the Seljuk Turks was alleviated, granting the Byzantines renewed vigor and enhancing the longevity of their nation.
The other major objective was also achieved. Jerusalem was captured from the Muslims, and maintained as a Christian-ruled city state for nearly 100 years.
At the risk of getting too far afield, let’s inject some history here.
Pope Urban II preached the first Crusade in order to alleviate ongoing abuse of Christians and Churches by Moslems.
The secular media likes to portray this as an unprovoked act of barbarism when the Moslems in the years after the death of Mahomet attacked and invaded North Africa, Persia, India, Palestine, Spain, Armenia, Syria and other countries.
There was almost 300 years of abuse by Islam before the first Crusade, not exactly un provoked.
The same “leading lights” that try to spread the ‘unprovoked’ lie will also try to tell you that the West went on Crusades to make money (the Crusader kingdoms were financial drains on the west, not sources of profit) and that the west was in a “dark age” which is more hoakum.
**These same people take Jesus’ words & twist them to suit their evil purposes.
Jesus said; "“Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.” (MT 10:34).
Jesus was not advocating violence, as many anti-Christians claim, He was proposing just the opposite. Jesus was warning of the violence that Christians would endure for His Holy Name!
These idiotic cards are just another example of the intentional use of inaccurate quotations, taken out of context, just as many do with individual verses of Sacred Scripture!
Even the highly unreliable Wikipedia says; “There exists no exact transcription of Urban II’s speech. The five extant versions of the speech were written down quite a bit later, and they differ widely from one another.”
Unfortunately in today’s poorly educated, 30 second soundbite world, if someone says it, many people believe it, even many"catholics"!
We, as Catholics, must learn our Faith & defend it, as Catholic Answers helps us to do!
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!