Tradition, Family, Property

“Whatever the merits of Plinio’s social theory, to make the writings of any one man the definitive guide to all social action is to imitate the error of the followers of Marx and Rand.” Discuss.

Personally, I try to follow Jesus’ social theory. Most of it is described in the Sermon on the Mount.
But, that is just me.

Despite the merits of Google, I could not ascertain what this social theory is, nor who Plinio is.

Care to provide some sources so we can discuss this in at least a semi-ignorant state instead of just reversing the orifice from which we talk?

I have read his book-on counter revolution and no doubt it is a great source of information on our Christian history. The T.F.P published many great pamphlets on family and morals of a sound traditional kind (Christian Institution on family is a wonderful book)many others they have published over the yearsand I am certain have helped many people. I am sure many have benefited from their resources especially books on the first Saturday devotions Our Lady ask us to do,all very Catholic and sound in morals.
My only worry is the excessive devotion and nearly workship? of the founder,Plinio Correa de Oliveira that I have encountered.Rather the T.F.P members following Gods will in there lives, the T.F.P tends to be more of following "Plinios" will)- I found that part ( apparent idolatry to their founder)off putting and probably not what the founder wanted or intended to happen in the first place.
If you are to look at the other lay organizions like Legion of Mary and St.Vincent de Paulthey dont take vows or do campaigns like the T.F.P,and their spiritiality is more following in Church teaching on the Saints. However T.F.Ps spiritiality is more in following of the founder,not a Saint.The church in her wisdom,has to investigate if a person is holy and in heaven BEFORE anyone can follow the life of such a person,especially a lay/man/woman because they dont have the sacramental grace and protection of a religious order( i.e Mother Theresa or Padre Pio where all in religious orders)What would happen if the church allowed us all to follow any person/thing we thought would make us holy! This is dangerous and is where we should be thankful we have the Holy Spirit guiding the Church and the wisdom of the Holy Father to lead us.This is why the Church declares people Saints! so we can follow there good lives and examples without following into all sorts of errors by following anyone that takes our fancy…the Church Tradition and teaching is wiser than us! all the church ask of us is to be prudent and wise in choosing who we follow.Most of all we should follow the example of Our Lord and Saviour, to him we owe all Glory and Praise- to Him alone we should adore.

Just my humble opinion and hope it helps!

Praise be the Holy name of Jesus for ever!

Here is another website run by TFP.
I found it earlier this week, and it is very odd, to say the least:

nobility.org/an-appeal-to-today%E2%80%99s-elites/

nobility.org/faq/

It reads like a strange amalgam of Catholic social thought and Ayn Rand.

And, that does indeed describe Plinio Correa de Oliveira in a nutshell …

Why do so many people join such groups when we have all we need in the Catholic Church?

TFP, with their sub-group, America Needs Fatima/ANF, is an international fundraising consortium that uh, educates young men although having had not one priestly vocation in the decades since their founding. TFP was condemned in their founder’s home country of Brazil by the all their bishops…twice. The World Apostolate of Fatima, formerly the “Blue Army,” published the Brazilian bishops’ condemnation of TFP in their newsletter. The Brazilian bishops cited, among other points, TFP’s refusal of pastoral oversight (they secretly disdain priests and promote the “higher” vocation of “warrior-monk”); and their flogging of the Fatima apparation for cash though they themselves have pictures of founder Plinio’s sainted mother in their homes, not the Virgin Mary. You’ll find TFP’s weepy “Jesus” and weepy “Mary” pictures in the backs of churches with the ever-present donation request.

TFP’s central tenet is elitism, which is so dangerously far off the average Catholic’s radar as to be non-existent. For the record, Catholics are, please God, the elect. E-L-E-C-T. Ultimately none of the elect knows they are the elect so Catholics are called to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. The antithesis of election is elitism, another anti-God tenet of Gnosticism, like those suggesting you have to be an insider to get into the Temple; or there is a 33rd degree awaiting the few elite who have the clout; or that your professorial status grants you, as Plinio claims in an insert in the $60 full-color coffe-table Nobility and the Traditional Elites book fold-out page formatted like a scroll, the “preferential option for the nobility,” all in direct contradiction of John Paul II’s “preferential option for the poor.”

This Nobility book of Plinio and Marian Horvat and her brother also claims America’s nobility or “traditional elite” consists of the the Southern slave holder; with Robert E. Lee being given by TFP as the pinnacle of genetic perfection. Oooh-la-la.

Plinio promised to rise from the dead and has yet to fulfill this pledge, but the closest thing TFP has to offer as regards eternal life is being on the TFP mailing list. Once you are on it, you will be eternally hounded for donations to fight the good fight. TFP is also pleased to accept donations of stocks, bonds, farms and houses while training kids to hate their parents they call “the fountain of my revolution.” SSPX has a lot of animosity for TFP. A cage match between any riled up SSPX seminarian and the beefiest “warrior-monk” TFP can muster would be ideal. Actually I think a similar scenario took place in Canada. “Don’t mess with SSPX-ans.” Anyway, ask the Blue Army for further info as TFP/ANF and their splinter group, Tradition in Action/TIA, is super-secretive. Should be some nice stuff on the web by ex-TFP’ers.

Thanks for that information on T.F.P,they are certainly elitist from the sounds of nobility book.

I have never heard of T.I.A,Splinter group?The blue army as well?Those guys have got about the Church.But why not do this work in the Church,that Our Lord founded.If they must promote Fatima,why did they not just join the Legion of Mary in those countries.They do the same thing,promote the Rosary and first five Saturdays?

Anyway I think the motive of doing this is more about power/control than money.Why else would they recruit young people to work for you.

As I recall, TFP is rather economic libertarian, but unlike Rand it is not Libertine (social libertarian).

Where do you get your information that TFP is libertarian? All of their writings that I have read concerning the subject conform to the great social encyclicals and St. Thomas Aquinas. I know that they do not support libertarianism. They are conservatives, not libertarians.

TIA (a wing of TFP) is more up front about what the group believes. They claim distributism is a heresy. TFP/TIA is conservative in the American political sense, in that they are gung-ho for laissez-faire capitalism and military adventurism including preemptive wars.

I would recommend staying clear of TIA and TFP.

Pax

I researched the TFP website a while back and even asked and they claim it was an ex member that left that started TIA.Apparently it is an independent organization,no one in the TFP are in TIA,so I was told.Nothing in the TFP website mentions TIA.

Claiming “independence” of different factions so they everyone else can deny responsibility when say the TFP in Brazil or France gets caught in some trouble is a long time practice of the group. With the creation of TIA, TFP is simply using the same tactic of operating under different names within the same country.

Pax

TFP and TIA are in no way affiliated. Some in TIA were once involved with the TFP, so what. Ther are also ex members of religious orders, ex-Catholics, ex-members of lay organizations that decide to break off and go in a different direction. Protestants will say that ex-Catholics truly represent what the Catholic Church teaches. Thinking people know that is hooey. The TFP does not support laissez-faire. Again they are faithful to the social encyclicals and teachings of the Church. You have to furnish some proof to have credibility.

Here is a good place to start for those interested in the numerous problems with TFP.

angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=773

SSPX, now that is a reliable source, and from 1983. TIA didn’t even exist then. Like Voltaire, if you sling enough mud some of it will stick.

That stuff about Plinio is Scary.Maybe TFP started of with good intentions but then became heretical with Plinio followers becoming idolaters of him?( A sin against the first commandment)Clearly this guy Armour would know as he was a member,he would know more than anyone here about the TFP.

PAX CHRISTI

The fact something comes from the SSPX does not make it false.

The fact that something comes from 1983 does not make it false.

Comparing me to Voltaire does not make what I say false.

I presented an article that makes specific allegations. If you disagree, then I think you’d do better to respond to those specific allegations rather than attacking their source.

The SSPX and John Armour are not the only ones to notice the serious problems with the TFP:

From the Brazilian Bishops Conference (I ran the statement in Portugese through google translator):

"It is a notorious lack of communion with the Church of TFP in Brazil, and its hierarchy with the Pope. Their esoteric, religious fanaticism, the worship of the personality of its leader and progenitor, the misuse of the name of Mary Blessed, as news circulated, can not in any way meet with the approval of the Church. regret the inconvenience of a civil society that manifests itself as Catholic religious entity, unrelated to the legitimate pastors. Accordingly, the bishops urge Catholics in Brazil not to enroll in TFP and not cooperate with it. "(Itaici, April 18, 1985 Bishops of Brazil at the 23rd Meeting of the National Assembly CNBB).

And from long time TFP ally, Bishop Castro Meyer, who came to discover the hidden side of the group:

z10.invisionfree.com/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=733

Pax Christi

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