so I been doing so resreach into some old school catholic traditions. I some stuff I found is really awesome. however, some '“trads” I have come across are plain mean and angry people, very milltant and what seems uncharitbly and even sometimes conspiracy minded thinking everyone is out to get us and unfortunately on a couple of occasions anti-semtic as well. Is it just me or does there seem to be a correlation between trads and these traits. truly not trying to offend anyone be in all honesty this what I’ve come across on several occasions.
Afaik, no. You can find conspiracy theorists et alia all over the religious spectrum.
I wouldn’t think so, no. I have friends who espouse progressive or liberal theologies (whether Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox) and many further acquaintances, and certainly I’ve encountered several instances where they can be mean spirited, uncharitable and dismissive of traditional practices and theologies. There is also that idiosyncratic variety of anti-semitism that crops up every now and again in liberal theological circles.
I don’t think these attitudes are inherently characteristic of any theological outlook, whether traditional or liberal. I think, largely, that they’re indicative of a sort of spiritual close mindedness - a failure to attentively listen - that is peculiar to an individual and their spiritual maturity.
With that being said, I’m sure I exhibit the same sorts of behaviours at some point or another, and so I try and avoid one-sided critiques of others in respect to their failings perceived or actual. Instead, I try to improve my own manner of engagement with others: more charity, more attentive listening, less censoriousness, less presumption. As Abba Moses the Black noted: ‘If you have a corpse lying in your front room, you don’t have the time to visit the funerals of others.’
Where I’m from, there are three types of traditionalists:
• those loyal to Pope Francis and to the entire Magisterium
• those who say they are loyal but, if you read them carefully, they are not
• those openly opposed to the Pope and Vatican Council II
I have not done a scientific study but I have the feeling that the character of the second and third parties is not generally the most friendly, if you don’t think like them.
But what some have said is true, that many “progressives” are not more tolerant and peaceful.
I think you are overgeneralising.
Keep in mind that the radical minority is always very vocal, whereas the moderate majority is not.
Some of those who identify as “Traditionalist”, with all the varied trappings and notions that the term encompasses, are indeed mean and angry, and anti-Semitic.
However, you’ll find that there is a silent majority that is not. On this forum we have many people who prefer “Traditionalist” things like the TLM, Latin, etc…who are not toxic.
I place Traditionalist in quotes because I think it a rather self-imposed and self-congratulatory term. A Roman Catholic who attends the Ordinary Form of the Roman Mass and lives his or her life in devout observance of the Church’s teachings is just as traditional as a so-called “Traditionalist”. Also, as an Eastern Catholic myself, I find certain usages of the term, mainly those that imply that “Traditionalist” Roman Catholicism is the normative form of Christianity, to be offensive and inaccurate.
Keep in mind that the internet attracts extreme personalities that may not have found an audience (or have chased away the audience) in real life. Don’t pay them much mind. You enjoy old Latin devotions? Good! Pray them, but don’t get sucked into the toxic, cult-like mentality that you’ve noticed.
In defense of the TLM folks (I don’t really like saying trad or traditionalists, as that leaves Eastern Catholics OUT), you’ll encounter those folks WAY more on the internet than in person. I have some friends that prefer the TLM, but don’t go out of their way to bash the ordinary form. It’s like atheists. How many atheists have you actually met outside of the internet? Probably not many. And the ones you have met, probably are nice people that disagree with you. The internet makes people into jerks (I should know, I am king of the jerks)
If you think that these characteristics are limited – or even heavily concentrated – only among traditionalists, then you need to get out a bit more and meet more Catholics. You’ll find these characteristics everywhere…
I’d express my opinion on this, but it’s generally not welcomed here.
People in general are ruled more by passion. Depending on a person’s personality and background, they’re more likely to believe in certain theories. A Green person from Germany is more likely to believe that microwaves are extremely dangerous to their health but far less likely to believe that the government is out to get them, or vice versa for a traditionalist conservative, etc.
There is nowhere on Earth you can go where everybody is awesome all of the time. Not even as a hermit because then we have to confront ourselves. Give up that task and save yourself the stress
I do get out. That’s where I encountered them FYI
I would like to hear it
Not all are that way of course but I have to say the traditionalist movement has at times reminded me a bit, ironically maybe, of Christian fundamentalism. Kind of a holier than thou attitude. Holiness is a good thing of course but sometimes I think we can focus on a preconceived image of holiness that may or may not be so consistent with God’s will-and we might miss the forest for the trees while bordering on legalism in fact.
LOL! Yes, but it sounded like you were saying that you don’t encounter it elsewhere (characteristically) except among traditionalist Catholics!
I am not saying I don’t of course I do. But I am saying talking about this group of people. I know very well those things exist everywhere but it seem to be a way of thinking Among trads. At least it seems to me just my opinion.