Traditional Catholicism with Charismatics

How does Traditional Catholicism play in with the Charismatic Movement (or at least, with those Charisms?)
Any Traditional Catholics utilize the Charisms of healing, prophecy, tongues etc?

God BLESS,
Mordocai

I’m pretty sure that there are Traditionalist who have special gifts, indeed I don’t see how if the gifts are indeed genuine that it could be otherwise

      **B  U  T  **

If they are so blessed, they would not, in my opinion in all liklihood use them or exhibit them in the context of the Sacrifice of the Mass.

Yes, NOT at mass. Stigmatics of yesteryear didn’t run around flaunting their wounds at mass.

I would also surmise that few, if any, traditionalists think babbling in gibberish, getting slain in the spirit, or holy laughter are genuine manifestations of the Holy Spirit. Rather, they would probably think that these are paint-by-number imitations of Pentecostal fanaticism.

I doubt those Traditional Catholics who are endowed with certain gifts will be willing to get up in front of large audiences and show off…they choose humility and simplicity…If they have the gifts…that is great, they know it and they are truly blessed…what does on profit by making themselves a public spectacle…other than to boast, what is the profit??? and they definitely don’t believe that convulsions, gibberish, seizures, and obscene hand waiving belong along side the Holy Sacrafice of The Mass.

Sonny…
Missed you…once again you have a way with words:thumbsup: …do I dare say I totally agree with you (but then this is justmy humble opinion)

Yeah…but I mispelled sacrifice…I feel like a moron right now…thanks for the support though…I have been absent as of late, because I have been spending a great deal of time in the gym…trying to keep good on my new years resolution…trying to get back to being a lean mean fighting machine

As far as the East is from the West so far is the display of charisms of the Holy Ghost from the TLM. My language was intentional. The Holy Spirit is free to move wherever He wants. With the exception of the saints with these charisms of the Holy Spirit, it was totally unknown in HMC of my childhood.

I repeat again, the Holy Spirit is free to move wherever He wants. He did not choose to move until after V II. Anything of this kind before Vatican II would have been considered to be antithetical to HMC. Not passing judgment, simply describing things as I remember them. Traditional Catholicism before Vatican II was not charismatic. Period.

As always…great post

What’s an HMC? is it Holy Mother the Church?

Well, the Church has always been fully open to spectacular charisms (bilocation, stigmata, prophetic visions, levitation, incorruptibles, ect.) But one thing that really stands out with these that the Church has always approved: they are hard to fake. Anyone can speak in gibberish, or laugh, or fall to the ground. Not everyone can see a vision of the exact location of the House of Mary (which had been lost) and lead people to it. (Bl Anne Catherine Emmerich)

Most traditionalist Catholics (Tridentine Mass only types) tend to shy away from the Charismatic gifts, as they were practically unheard of in the Church prior to Vatican II.

Also many of the more radical traditionalists (SSPX etc) view them as an infiltration of Pentecostal Protestant ideas and practices, basically a “protestantization” as they have labeled many of the changes which came in the wake Vatican II they don’t agree with.

Not me…

I despise tongues.

While this is certainly true, all of these gifts were not gathered in one building at one time.

Hey, I’m not SSPX etc. and I also see that much of what is in our parishes today is from Pentecostal Protestants. I’m not speaking of the liturgy itself but as a dear friend put it, “the toppings”. Handholding, gesturing and tongues are all found in Pentecostal Services. One would only have to attend a few to see where these actions some from.

Healings are not allowed at Mass. That is to say, attempts to heal. If the Holy Spirit elects to produce a falsh and a bang and cure someone of cancer, then that’s not something the Church can legislate about.

Charismatics are quite frequently political conservatives, but they are not really in sympathy with Traditional Catholicism. Whether or not enthusiasm and babbling in tongues is less bad than apathy and no-one in church for holy days is a good question. Charismatics in communion with Church are of course still Catholics. A man doesn’t cease to be a responsible adult just because he occasionally indulges in a little silliness.

i like what tim staples has to say on the whole charismatic phenomena. he was an assembly of god youth pastor, and they were heavily into “gifts of the spirit.”

he is very skeptical of these things now. he says the gift of tongues should be actualy languages. being slain in the spirit is a little suspect, too, when the “healer” is just walking down a line of people and they are falling like flies. tim says, if he was in such a line, he’d put one foot behind him just to make sure that he’s not fooling himself.

i think the emotionalism surrounding such events tends to obscure the contemplative aspect of liturgy. if the emotionalism wears off, people may be fooled into thinking their faith is lacking.

Methinks the only tongues one would find in a Traditionalist context would be the ones upon which Communion is received…:stuck_out_tongue:

-ACEGC

Ding, ding, ding!
We have a winner!!!

Spot on!

From a “traditional Catholic” website’s page called “Lists every Catholic should be familiar with.”

Class of Gifts of the Holy Ghost known as Charismata

Gift of speaking with wisdom
Gift of speaking with knowledge
Faith
Grace of healing
Gift of miracles
Gift of prophecy
Gift of discerning spirits
Gift of tongues (i.e., xenolalia, the ability to speak foreign languages unknown by natural reason)
Gift of interpreting speeches

*Note: *
See I Corinthians 12:6-11; I Corinthians 12:28-31; and Romans 12:6-8. The number of items in this class of Gifts of the Holy Ghost, properly called “charismata,” is disputed among theologians. Some add: Gift of government, Gift of Helps, Gift of distributio, Gift of misericordia. The charismata were/are not necessary for individual sanctification, were/are not distributed to all Christians, and are to be subjected to authority and the proper ends for which they were given (I Corinthians 12-14).

The Charismata are traditional gifts, but many of the things now considered charismata are not in the list (like babbling) and are indeed simply protestant delerium. Likewise, Mass was not the appropriate forum for the exercise of these gifts. Some people forget, while Mass is the summit of worship, it is not the only forum for worship. The various charismata can be exercised in prayer meetings and other gatherings with the consent of the proper authorities. :thumbsup:

That describes me even when I was a Protestant. I was always weary of that kind of thing.

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