Traditional Latin Mass

What is everyone’s on the Traditional Latin Mass becoming the “norm” in the Roman Catholic Church again?

I was raised RC but have only ever been to NO Masses. I will say though I’ve never been to a crazy NO Mass. The ones I have been to have been respectful and beautiful in their own right. I watched and listen to for the first time in my life the Traditional Latin Mass on youtube today and I was awestruck by it! I used to believe that the Eastern Liturgies were the most beautiful ones but I revised this thought. I would like to go to a Traditional Latin Mass in person to experience it first hand.

I would highly suggest you go to a latin mass if you get the chance. I try to go at least once a week, but the closest church that says a latin mass is 45 minutes away. It is definitely worth the trip though. My devotion and respect of the Eucharist has grown so much since I started going. I think the latin mass is slowly getting more popular and hopefully will start to be more widely available soon.

Your reaction is pretty typical of those who are exposed to the TLM. There may come a time when the majority of priests in the Latin Rite are formed in the TLM and the number of priests that are trained in the Novus Ordo Missae is in the minority.

When that happens, just a the Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist have now become the norm in the Novus Ordo, so the Extraordinary Rite will become the norm.

If the Church were to decide in her wisdom to make the EF the norm, I would continue to attend the Pauline Mass. If the Church were to decide to eliminate the Pauline Mass I would comply but would be most distressed.

I grew up with, and served at, the pre-Vatican II TLM but would never choose to go back to it. In saying that I am not in any way knocking anyone else’s preference for it but simply expressing my own preference.

I’m sure the current ones are far and away better than the ones that I grew up with but the truth is that if it became the norm of the Church again I have little doubt that it would very quickly spiral backwards to the same problems it had before. Quite frankly I don’t think a lot of those who love it so much now would want it becoming the norm in the long run. I’m sure there were reverent ones when I was attending them but in my experience they were few and far between and the abuses–though of a different type–were every bit as prevalent as some seem to think abuses are now in the Pauline Mass. Like so many things that become the “food for the masses”, greater availability would almost surely translate into diminished quality.

Just my two cents, and worth every penny! :rolleyes:

\ I would highly suggest you go to a latin mass if you get the chance.\

**Do you mean the Extraordinary Form, or the Ordinary Form celebrated in Latin?

There’s MORE than one form of the Latin Mass in the Church, you know.**

I was referring to the Tridentine Mass!

I would love to see the TLM be the norm of the western Church again.

What sort of abuses did you see?

What abuses? The Liturgies of Saint John and Saint Basil are done in every Orthodox Church throughout the world and they have not become diminished in quality. I doubt using the TLM everyday would diminished it. Yes there may be abuses but I think they would be in the minority.

I think he is right, there would likely be abuses if the TLM became the norm again. Because it would still be the same celebrants that are currently abusing the OF. There needs to be something done about that.

I remember seeing a Cardinal at the Vatican (his name escapes me) who said (paraphrasing here) that “there were certainly abuses in the Old Mass, I remember them very well.” From what I have gathered here, the abuses in the Latin Mass were things like “speed Masses,” where the priest would say the prayers as quickly as he could, often times not waiting for the server to say the responses. Also, the habit of those in the congregation to devote themselves to personal prayers instead of following along with the Mass. My dad said that years ago, men would often stand in the back of the Church to pop outside for a smoke during Mass. And I also remember someone mentioning that the priests would take a shortcut during the distribution of communion by shortening the acclamation before giving the Host. Lastly, I remember someone here saying that at their TLM the priest is mic’d and says the prayers out loud for the congregation to hear.

I think that those TLMs that are celebrated today are probably more reverent than those from years ago because the celebrating priests of today have an active interest in the TLM. If the TLM became imposed on priests against their personal desires, I think we would probably see the same abuses/problems as existed years ago. It is a pity that we humans are such fickle creatures.

I just don’t get why people believe that these abuses will come into effect. Sure maybe a few abuses will happen with the clergy who were raised on the NO mass but I don’t think this will be widespread. Why does this not take place in all the Eastern Orthodox Churches? Are there some Churches who drop some portions of the Liturgy for time? Yes. Are there some Churches that people show up just before communion then leave? Yes. This is not the “norm” in the East though.

I guess I just don’t get why the West would react so different than the east with the implementation of a more traditional Liturgy. I have not meet any older Catholic (my entire family is Catholic) who would not jump for joy with a return to the Traditional service. The biggest criticism I’ve herd was they wished it was in English. I think the Tridentine Mass in English would help with some of the problems of people doing their own thing while the service is going on. I know I enjoyed the Liturgy of Saint John much more in English than Church Slavonic.

I’m just trying to see what typical RC feel about different rites. I’m trying to discern were I belong and am running over all the original reasons I left the RC Church to begin with. I appreciate everyones answers even if I disagree with some.

But it would be an abuse to celebrate the TLM verbally and in English. The rubrics for the TLM are that it is said silently and in Latin.

How odd that you try to end abuses in the liturgy of the Mass by suggesting an abuse!

I’m not trying to end anything just gain a better understanding of the situation with the western Liturgies. In anycase thanks for your input!

Individuals making personal prayers during the mass is not an abuse

I have only seen TLM on EWTN. I love it, and I wish to go to one some day. I too have only been to the Pauline Mass. Here is couple of thoughts that are in my head about the liturgy.

  1. During the Liturgy of the word, priest faces people and during liturgy of the Eucharist, priest faces God.

  2. Use the TLM structure in vernacular.

  3. Give reverence to the TLM, but don’t revert back to it for a norm. However, try to do the TLM once a month.

I don’t believe the extraordinary form will become the norm, but am hopeful that it will at least be widely available in the near future. I am very fortunate to have an FSSP parish close by that I can attend.

How is it an abuse to say the prayers fast? Do the rubrics of the Mass establish a pace for saying the prayers? If not, saying them quickly is not an abuse. It might be slightly irreverent (or not), but it is not an abuse. Even today, some Priests say the mass faster than others; just as some people say that Rosary faster than others.

[quote=] Also, the habit of those in the congregation to devote themselves to personal prayers instead of following along with the Mass.

How do you know they were not following along with the Mass? There is nothing wrong with saying personal prayers, such as the Rosary, at Mass. As long as the person is following along with the basic parts of the Mass, this is perfectly acceptable, as Pope Pius X says in his Catechism.

[quote=] And I also remember someone mentioning that the priests would take a shortcut during the distribution of communion by shortening the acclamation before giving the Host… Lastly, I remember someone here saying that at their TLM the priest is mic’d and says the prayers out loud for the congregation to hear.

Is it an abuse to have a microphon on so that the congregation can hear all the prayers, even those said in a low tone? Where is this forbidden in the rubrics?

If you think those are abuses, I wonder what you think of the real abuses and sacreliges that take place at the Novus Ordo. For example, Priests wearing clown costumes, changing the words of consecration, hosts being left in the pews; entire diocese using invalid matter (Fr. Corapi told that story), which means that every single mass in that diocese was invalid, and the communion was mere bread. Those are real abuses,

But I understand that some people have to justfy that sacreliges that take place on a regular basis at the Novus Ordo by pretending that there were similar abuses at the Traditional Mass. But almost all they can come up with are stories of Priests saying the mass at a pace that they personally consider to be too fast. They pretend that this is an abuse, even though the rubrics don’t provide the speed at which the prayers are to be said.

At this time, to declare the Extraordinary Form [TLM] the church-wide norm, would be ill advised.

The EF of the Latin Liturgy is a faithful expression of classic Roman Catholic culture. As such, many parishes and diocese are openly hostile to the idea that something - so Catholic - would be required to darken the interior of their “their” churches. Any attempt to force-feed it to these folks will be met with resistance, rebellion, gnashing of teeth, etc. In short order, “their” experts" would take it upon themselves to reform it along the lines of their “their” OF masses.

It is probably best to find a parish where the EF is currently offered, attend Mass there, and support those who have the courage to offer this service to the faithful. Those motivated to help preserve and advance the use of the Extraordinary Form may wish to get involved with their local Una Voce chapter.

Just wondering what the Roman Catholic Church is? We are a universal church. Not just part of one country.

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