Traditions

Hello!

I was invited here from another board. I asked a question, and rec’d no reply except it might be better to ask on this board. This is elle, aka ll, waving at JP & friends. :slight_smile:

So, the question is, what traditions did Jesus start. Or, maybe a broader question, what traditions were started at the time of Christ?

Baptism, communion, holidays, etc. Anybody?

Welcome Elle,

Baptism, communion, holidays, etc. Anybody?

Jesus instituted our seven sacraments
Baptism, Communion, Confirmation, Holy Orders, Blessing of the Sick, Penance and Marriage. He established the Church and all that we believe. Many confuse small t tradition with Large T tradition. Sometimes tradition is spoken of in derisive terms because of a lack of knowledge or prejudice. Your question is broad perhaps you can narrow it.

Well, actually I was looking for some guys I had a conversation with earlier, BUT,

  1. Baptism - didn’t start with Jesus. Actually a Jewish tradition, mikveh. Started with Adam.
  2. Communion - didn’t start with Jesus. Actually just confirming a previous tradition, Passover.
  3. Marriage - This didn’t start with Jesus, obviously.
  4. Penance - If you mean asking forgiveness, obviously started with Adam.
  5. Blessing the sick - a maybe. I’ll have to dig more on that one.
  6. Confirmation and Holy Orders - no comprende.

So, again, sorry, I’m not catholic. little c. I was invited here for this conversation. I am trying to follow your board rules, and be polite, but I of the five listed above, I don’t see anything NEW. Things NEW at the time of Christ. New traditions He started (or during His time.)

““Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven” (Jas. 5:14–15).”

Yes, but is that something NEW?

Jewish Encyclopedia says praying and anointing are an Old Testament Jewish tradition.

I’m looking for something NEW. Something invented by Jesus, or at the time of his followers.

Jesus could not have performed a confirmation.

…well, I say that. But, I mean, by definition, a sacrament given to those who are baptized, and have received the Holy Spirit. Well, the Holy Spirit was given AFTER He left.

…so along those lines of reasoning, He would not have done this. May be faulty reasoning, I know.

Here’s one… speaking in tongues. Now that would be new except the Tower of Babel, now wouldn’t it?

[quote=elle]Here’s one… speaking in tongues. Now that would be new except the Tower of Babel, now wouldn’t it?
[/quote]

Could that really be called a tradition? I don’t recall him ever telling anyone to continue that, nor is it something a person can just “do”. It was a miracle, but I don’t think it is a tradition.

I think it would be fair to say that he started the tradition of the Eucharist, though.

Holy Orders, now even Catholic Encyclopedia says it wasn’t something NEW. In fact, it mentions the priestly line of the OLD dispensation.

So, come on people, something NEW. New, new, new.

Or, was everything Jesus did, simply Jewish in nature?

[quote=elle]Or, was everything Jesus did, simply Jewish in nature?
[/quote]

I think He based a lot of what He did on Jewish tradition. But, at the same time, I think He made it something new. Baptism was a Jewish tradition, yes. But the meaning behind it, and the idea of the Trinitarian Baptism was different.

[quote=MistyF]Could that really be called a tradition? I don’t recall him ever telling anyone to continue that, nor is it something a person can just “do”. It was a miracle, but I don’t think it is a tradition…
[/quote]

I think you’re right about that.

I think it would be fair to say that he started the tradition of the Eucharist, though …

So, does anybody speak in tongues when they receive the Eucharist? If not, what evidence is there that the person has rec’d the Holy Spirit.

Not a tongue-speaker myself, just asking.

Hello, elle! Glad you took me up on the invite!
(I promise I’ll be nicer here ;))

The Sacriments are all pre-figured in the Old Testament, but they were not complete. Christ fulfilled them - this is to say that He filled them to the full, where they were previously not full. The baptism of John the Baptist was not complete, because it lacked the Holy Spirit (which descended like a dove when Christ fulfilled the Sacriment) or the “saving power” of the Great Flood of Noah. Holy Orders existed (Aaronic priesthood), but it wasn’t fulfilled until we had the priesthood in the order of Melkizedek. The Eucharist was pre-figured in Passover and the Seder meal, but it was incomplete. Mana likewise pre-figured the Eucharist, but it was not miraculous enough.

All of these things existed before Christ was bodily on Earth, but you have to understand that it was God who made these things (not men), and Christ who fulfilled them. The New Testament is concealed in the Old, and the Old Testament is revealed in the New!

Once you start to see this, it makes a lot more sense…

RyanL (Pictionary)

Seems like your question is pretty broad. Yes, the Church of the new covenant grew out of the old covenant. Jesus was a Jew, the Apostles were Jews, the first converts were Jews. As Catholics, we believe that he fulfilled the old covenant, in that He was the anticipated Jewish messiah. Catholicism has a Jewish heritage.

So yes, marriage existed before; but Jesus made it a sacrament, and a special means of grace, and insisted on its permanence.

Ritual washing was a Jewish custom. Jesus instituted baptism as a means of initiation into the new covenant.

He used the occasion of a Passover meal to institute the Eucharist at the Last Supper, the fulfillment of the old covenant, and the establishment of the new covenant in his body and blood–one sacrifice.

He told the Apostles that the Holy Spirit would come upon them, to remind them of everything he had taught. This happened at Pentecost, the birthday of the church. He authorized his apostles and their successors to continue this in the sacrament of confirmation through an anointing with oil.

James 5:14–15 describes the anointing of the sick.

If his Church was to be able to carry on, His apostles needed successors when they died, thus the sacrament of ordination. When Jesus said at the Last Supper, “Do this in remembrance of me,” we believe that He meant for them to carry on into the future what he did that night.

The Jews had animal sacrifices and prayer offerings for sin; but Jesus instituted the sacrament of Penance for the forgiveness of sins in the new covenant. He told the apostles: “Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; whose sins you retain, they are retained.”

For more detailed information, you might want to check the Library at Catholic.com.

[quote=MistyF]I think He based a lot of what He did on Jewish tradition. But, at the same time, I think He made it something new.
[/quote]

So, see, my point with the guys, the guys who invited me here, but I don’t see now, was Jesus was so totally Jewish. I don’t think He made a lot of new things up. I think the Jews had screwed up the instructions the Father gave them, and He was coming to restore them to the proper order.

Like handwashing, a Jewish tradition. They said it was a LAW, because it was such a long-standing tradition. He calls it their law, not His Law. See what I mean?

So, my point was, he didn’t come to invent a bunch of new traditions, just to steer everybody back to the BASICS of what was given to the children of Israel in the wilderness. To die for us, and forgive our sins, yes, but more. To restore us back to the BASICS of what was taught. My point was, He did not come adding a bunch of NEW stuff. He specifically said He did not come to do away with the law.

In fact, the Jews had added several traditions, during that time. He did not condone or participate in those traditions.

[quote=elle]So, does anybody speak in tongues when they receive the Eucharist? If not, what evidence is there that the person has rec’d the Holy Spirit.

Not a tongue-speaker myself, just asking.
[/quote]

I hope I don’t get any of this wrong, I’m just learning myself. But, I’ve never seen anything about people speaking in tongues in modern day within the Catholic Church.

Receiving the Sacrament of the Eucharist isn’t receiving the Holy Spirit. Jesus told His apostles to eat the bread, which was His flesh, and drink the wine, which was His blood. Catholic Answers has a good article which explains that Jesus’ flesh and blood are literally within the Eucharist.

Passover, in other words. But instead of retaining the Jewish tradition, it’s all changed up.

Jesus did Passover. Did not eat wafers.

[quote=RyanL]Hello, elle! Glad you took me up on the invite!
(I promise I’ll be nicer here ;))

RyanL (Pictionary)
[/quote]

Hi, Ryan!!!

[quote=elle]Passover, in other words. But instead of retaining the Jewish tradition, it’s all changed up.

Jesus did Passover. Did not eat wafers.
[/quote]

Like Passover, you cannot be saved unless you eat the flesh of the Lamb, who was sacrificed so that you might have life (and have it to the full!).

Fulfillment is the key…

RyanL

Hello Elle…

We believe that baptism is the sign of renewal and our christianity, a sacrament of regeneration if you will, that from the beginning of apostolic teaching included whole households (including babies obviously) Acts 16:15, 33; 18:8; 1 cor 1:16

communion was established at the last supper

Jesus redefined marriage as two become one…and his teaching about divorce as a definate NO

Penance…confession, Jesus established See John:20 vs 21-23 …He breathed on them ans said Receive the holy Spirit…Whose sins you forgive are forgiven, and whose sins you retain are retained

Fuzzybunny told you about the annointing of the sick

Confirmation and Holy orders…I’ll let someone else tackle, because I’d have to re-look that up, I don’t know it well enough to wing it…but I’m sure you’ll get answers soon

God Bless you…I hope I helped

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