Transgender??


#1

Did anyone watch the Oprah show today?

The guests on Oprah are struggling with very young children that want to be a different sex…they feel like they are in the wrong body.

One is a little boy who is 5 and WANTS to be a girl…he is 5
and has been saying that since he was 3!

One of the guest is a girl who wants to be a boy and is now living “his” life as a boy. They are even giving “him” Depo shots to curb “his” monthly flows…they are giving this young child (around 10 to 12) birthcontrol shots! http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif

They have a transgender “therapist” and she said, with a child this young (the 5 year old) theres 3 ways it can go…grow out of it…become gay…or become the opposite sex later. She also said there’s NOTHING the parents can do to “fix” it, and they did nothing to cause it…it happens in the 1st trimester of pregnancy?

WHAT??

I am SO very bothered by all of this.

What is going on here? Where is God in these peoples lives…are they not turing to Him? He’s there! Why aren’t they talking about God? Wouldn’t you if this was happening to your child??

God DOESN’T make mistakes…does He? What is going on that these VERY young children are having this confusion? Why are these parents being told they can’t do anything to help the child come to terms with the way God made them? Is that true…they can’t do anything?

What do you all know about this? What do the Catholic “specialist” say about this?


#2

I am very sceptical about transgender stuff even in adults. I doubt very much that it has anything to do with the time in the womb, but is much more likely to be a result of things the child heard in his or her early years. Perhaps the 5 year old boy’s parents or grand parents really wanted a girl, and have made comments. If he heard that girls are easier to rear… would be so nice … whatever, he might start thinking that his life would be so much better if he was a girl.

Too many psychologists and psychiatrists are very secular and go along with the rubbish that we are subjected to on a daily basis. And, to often, God is not in the picture.


#3

God didn’t make a mistake…the transgendered people are probably here for a reason…maybe to teach us to show compassion to those who are different, especially somethign that so contradicts the catholic mindset?


#4

Go to Planned Parenthood’s poisonous webpage they use to pollute the minds of our children www.teenwire.com and search transgender and you will find where people get these crazy ideas


#5

I feel I should respond…

I had feelings of being in the wrong body from the time that I was very young, 3 or 4.

I was born in the late 50’s so this was not something that anyone talked about although my parents knew there was something going on with me.

When I was born, so the story goes, I was pronounced a boy by the doctor who quickly reversed his pronouncement and said I was a girl.

There was never a time in my childhood that I didn’t live with these strong feelings. I prayed every birthday that God would change me and make me right.

When I hit my teen years life became pretty unbearable as this overriding drive to change my body, get out of my body grew worse.

At 17, my mother started taking me to therapy, at 18 I went to the Johns Hopkins clinic down in Baltimore for a consultation.

Back then it was very hard to be given the okay for sex-reassignment surgery, and they suggested because of my age that I continue with therapy.

At the time I was devastated and so very lost.

I got involved in a lot of crazy things and basically buried my feelings in a crazy lifestyle.

But, I told you that to tell you this. Somewhere in my mid-30’s I went to a therapist to once again tackle these feelings and try to find some peace of mind.

I went through a very intense therapy for about 2 years when something big happened to me. It wasn’t magic but I came to a deep understanding of what it was I really was after and it had nothing to do with changing my sex. But, in the course of many realizations the feelings of wanting to change my body went away and have never returned and it’s been 10 years.

I went through a period of being so amazed at being a woman and feeling great about it that I started having sexual feelings for women. I explored the gay world for awhile.

Although I feel it was an important step in my healing, after giving myself permission to be gay, I soon lost interest in women sexually, and started to expderience a deep desire to be in a relationship with a man.

I feel now that God gave me the burden of feeling that I was the wrong sex because of how truly wonderful the healing was. At the time I wasn’t even a Christian, but as young child I did for a time feel close to God.

The process of being freed from a sexual identity disorder though was very very painful. All the personal demons came pouring out of me attacking me one by one until I, with the help of a wonderful therapist, addressed them or discredited them one by one.

It was well after the healing took place that I felt drawn to Christ and to the Catholic church.

It is especially sad for me to hear that children so young are now being manipulated by adults who think they’re doing these kids a favor by deciding that they cannot change outside of changing their sex. The adults are very wrong about this, I can say with confidence and personal knowledge.

I will count my blessings for being born when I was.


#6

God bless you, Ptero, and thank you for sharing your incredible (on many levels) story. Congratulations and Praise God for your “recovery.”

In Christ,

Debbie


#7

Yes, thank you for sharing your story Ptero ((((hugs)))). That’s EXACTLY what I wanted, no, needed to hear. I am so happy that you found your way and you are at peace with who you are…who God made you to be.

I so wish the Oprah show would have done more digging and presented that story with both sides. Surely you are not the only one who has defeated this disorder. Having a guest such as yourself would have givin people in this situation hope and not just a feeling of saddness for the loss.


#8

RE: God doesn’t make mistakes

I hope by this you aren’t trying to imply there’s no way a person could be “transgendered” because God wouldn’t make that kind of mistake. If God can “make” someone be born missing most of their brain, wtih a defective heart, inseperably conjoined to her twin, blind, deaf, retarded, etc, etc, then why can’t God also “make” someone who’s terribly confused about their sexual identity?


#9

I would guess that my story isn’t as compelling or as sensational as that of a child who is having a sex change!

I would guess that there are others who have experienced true healing from transsexual feelings, but I haven’t found any.

One of the things that I learned about myself in the course of healing is that I have a deep desire for transformation and that my desire to change my body was all about my desire to experience change on a deeper spiritual level.

Now, I acknowledge and live that desire in ways that bring me true satisfaction and peace. It is the desire for transformation that has led me back to God. I feel that the desire for transformation is God calling me to live in a more meaningful, caring, and loving way. Now that I am opening up to this I just begin to realize how selfishly I have lived my life and how short I fall from the mark. As well, I discover a deeper compassion for others and see all humans as struggling… and there but for the grace of God go I.

After several years of being free from the torture of feeling that I was in the wrong body, I began to feel the urge towards union with God, to higher things and I began to look around at this world and feel sad for how much potential there is for people to miss the deeper callings they might have and not know they have because of all the distractions around us.

I wish very much to help any others out there by telling my story, although I know that people are only ready to hear that healing is possible without changing your body or gender when touched by God’s grace to hear that.

When I was younger I wasn’t ready to hear any such thing, which is what makes it all the more scary to hear that adults are fostering transgendered feelings in their children. I don’t think that children who suffer from this should be bullied out of it, that won’t work, but I don’t think that they should be bullied into changing their sex either and can be helped without changing their bodies, or taking any drugs!

But again, if our culture has decided that the only solution is to let these kids live as the opposite sex, take hormones and have surgery, there’s probably not much to be done outside of prayer and putting the idea out there that there are options for anyone suffering from transgender/transsexual feelings.

Thank you and God bless you all!


#10

[quote=Joan M]I am very sceptical about transgender stuff even in adults. I doubt very much that it has anything to do with the time in the womb, but is much more likely to be a result of things the child heard in his or her early years. Perhaps the 5 year old boy’s parents or grand parents really wanted a girl, and have made comments. If he heard that girls are easier to rear… would be so nice … whatever, he might start thinking that his life would be so much better if he was a girl.
[/quote]

If you do a google search on “ambiguous genitalia” you’ll find a lot of medical information about various conditions related to it. While I’m sure that some transgendered individuals are indeed suffering from psychological problems, it certainly isn’t all of them. Sex is determined at conception and we inherit our genetic sex from the male’s genetic contribution, but ambiguous genitalia can occur later in the gestation process. Is that God’s fault? I don’t think so. Once a child is born, doctors will often make a determination of that child’s intended sex and proceed with sex differentiation accordingly, but since doctors are not God, they are fully capable of make the wrong determination as to the correct sex assignment.

Some opponents of sex reassignment will often suggest that the desire to change genders is simply a mask for homosexual yearnings that the transgendered person does not want to admit to themselves, but since a fair number of people who go through gender reassignment medication and surgery are attracted to the same sex after surgery, that argument doesn’t hold a lot of water.

Edited to add link: nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003269.htm

The link above is the National Institute of Health’s page on ambiguous genitalia which is probably the most reliable source of information. I’m c&p’ing the part that I find most interesting:

Sometimes, the ambiguity is such that a choice must be made whether to raise the child as male or female (regardless of the child’s chromosomes). This choice can have tremendous social and psychological impact on the child, so counseling is usually recommended.

Note: It is often technically easier to treat (and therefore raise) the child as female (it is easier for a surgeon to make female genitalia than it is to make male genitalia), so in some cases this is recommended even if the child is genetically male. However, this is a difficult decision and should be discussed with your family, your doctor, and the surgeon involved.

Jenn


#11

This is where I am confused. I in NO way think that children born with Downs, born without limbs etc are “mistakes”…again God does not make mistakes. Where I’m confused is God made man and woman. So please help me understand where this “confusion” is coming from. I feel it is coming from the media…society…our “politically correct” society…go with what feels good.

I am concerned that by letting these children live the lives they feel they want, we are only adding to the confusion and trouble they will be up against. The confusion doesn’t end with a sex change…does it?

I am asuming, since it was not brought up, that the children on Oprah yesterday did not have any genitalia confusion at birth. This would be a different story if at the time of the childs birth the doctor made an error in determing the sex of the child. (The mom of the 5 year told Oprah that her son has repeatedly told them he wants his penis to fall off.)

It sounded as those these particular children where confused about their feelings.

God made us who we are AND he gave us the “Graces” to help us live our lives according to His plans…not ours. I just KNOW that God does NOT want us to change who we are to that extreme.

So, how do we as Christians handle or deal with this? It just can’t be right to let these children change who God made them to be~


#12

[quote=cindy th]I am asuming, since it was not brought up, that the children on Oprah yesterday did not have any genitalia confusion at birth.
[/quote]

I wouldn’t make an assumption like that about a daytime talk show, even Oprah. They’re not investigative journalists and I think as far as the goals and motivations of the show’s producers the only one we can really be clear on is that they want good ratings. As for the parents, I can’t even guess what kind of motivations are involved in deciding to expose your child’s psychological problems on national television so I wouldn’t assume total honesty on their behalf either.

Compared to many daytime talk show hosts I think Oprah is a decent and honorable person, but I still take her show with a grain of salt. Maybe I’m just cynical.

As for you question about what is the right thing we as Christians should do? I can’t answer that, but I’d like to suggest that no conclusive answer can be arrived out without a great deal of discernment and that this discernment involves investigating the phenomena of transgender in far greater depth than is possible on a one hour tv show and that premature assumptions and conclusions need to be put aside for the duration of the investigation.

Jenn


#13

Doctors are not able to determine the sex of approximately 1 in 1000 children born (I readily admit that I think that’s the number, but now I’m wondering if it’s 1 in 10,000 … either way, still more than I would have guessed). Sometimes, they wait a year or two and it becomes apparent. Othertimes, the doctor makes an “informed” decision and does some quick surgery before giving the infant to the parents. Sometimes they make the correct decision, some times they don’t. Often, when they decide that the child is a “boy,” the boy goes through incredible trauma upon reaching puberty and developing breasts.

Not all transgender is genetic. But some of it is poor decisions by doctors who feel the need to proclaim “it’s a boy” or “it’s a girl” to the awaiting parents, rather than saying “it’s a … child, and we’ll figure it out eventually.”

Many adults who have had their sex determined by a doctor must overcome great bitterness and anger. I deeply sympathize for these people. Nothing like being told you were one sex all your life, only to discover upon reaching puberty that, well, you might have been another but some doctor made a split decision.

*I’ll try and find the statistic on indeterminate gender later tonight when I have time to search …


#14

[quote=GuibertOfNogent]Nothing like being told you were one sex all your life, only to discover upon reaching puberty that, well, you might have been another but some doctor made a split decision.
QUOTE]

I meant to say something about this in my earlier post. It used to be fairly common that doctors didn’t even tell parents that their child had an indeterminate sex at birth. I don’t think that happens as much nowadays, but I’m sure it still happens occasionally. What I think is more common is that parents hide this fact and the decisiosn made from their child until, of course, it becomes completely self-evident to the child that there is something “odd” about their body, even if it is only that it feels like their body doesn’t fit them properly. I also think it is likely that some parents never reveal the truth, thus leaving their child with deep psychological problems for which there is no reasonable explanation.

I am not sure that sex re-assignment later in life is always the best option. That seems like an awfully extreme step to take – not only physically, but emotionally and socially. As biased as our culture is against other minorities, trangendered are about the lowest of the low. People do not take the time to understand what is at issue and bureacracies are very loathe to recognize the change in sex which makes even day to day matters a minefield of obstacles. I would not wish that on my child.

Now I’d like to get back to the issue of God and the responsibility for birth defects and other human frailties. I don’t know what the Church teaches on this matter, but I’ll share with you what I think and if I am wrong in any crucial point, please point it out to me so I can increase my understanding.

Here is what I think:
Because of the gift of free will, each of us are the sum of the accumulation of all decisions made by humans over the course of human history, starting with the very first decision to eat the apple. I believe that God speaks to us and offers to guide us, but that He always allows us the opportunity to refuse his divine assistance and to ignore what He is telling us. I believe that even when it comes to Satan our free will is always present so we can decide to be influenced by Satan or be influenced by God. Now, it would be nice if only our own decisions impacted our lives, but it is not the case. Our fathers and mothers and their fathers and mothers, etc. have made thousands, millions, no – billions – of decisions that bear their fruits in our lives in the present.

If we were still in the Garden of Eden, I am certain there would be no illness and no defects in human beings, but take a look around. This is no garden. The challenge then becomes how do we deal with the burdens that we and our progenitors have placed upon ourselves? By surmounting these challenges with steadfast faith & determination we bring ourselves closer to God. This is what makes sense to me.
[/quote]


#15

This is child abuse. If a child wants to be the opposite gender then they have a mental problem. The way to deal with that is not to mutilate them, but help them with the mental illness.


#16

Doctors are not able to determine the sex of approximately 1 in 1000 children born (I readily admit that I think that’s the number, but now I’m wondering if it’s 1 in 10,000 … either way, still more than I would have guessed). Sometimes, they wait a year or two and it becomes apparent. Othertimes, the doctor makes an “informed” decision and does some quick surgery before giving the infant to the parents. Sometimes they make the correct decision, some times they don’t. Often, when they decide that the child is a “boy,” the boy goes through incredible trauma upon reaching puberty and developing breasts.

I think this information pre-dates reliable DNA testing. Genetically, the child is either a boy or a girl. If there is any question, a DNA test can be done in infancy and surgery preformed if necessay before the child (or his or her parents) have any transgender trauma.


#17

[quote=kmktexas]I think this information pre-dates reliable DNA testing. Genetically, the child is either a boy or a girl. If there is any question, a DNA test can be done in infancy and surgery preformed if necessay before the child (or his or her parents) have any transgender trauma.
[/quote]

It doesn’t always make itself perfectly apparent in infancy that there is a problem and routine DNA testing is not performed, though maybe it should be.

Also, the Medline report does state that even when the genetic sex has been determined, the nature of the physical abnormality may be such that it is easier to contravene the actual genetic sex during surgery.


#18

Also, the Medline report does state that even when the genetic sex has been determined, the nature of the physical abnormality may be such that it is easier to contravene the actual genetic sex during surgery.

Are you saying that they purposely do surgery to resolve the gender in a way that is OPPOSITE the actual genetic gender because it is easier? This is just asking for trouble as the child grows older.

These poor children!


#19

[quote=kmktexas]Are you saying that they purposely do surgery to resolve the gender in a way that is OPPOSITE the actual genetic gender because it is easier? This is just asking for trouble as the child grows older.

These poor children!
[/quote]

Yes, Kristine, that’s what I’m saying. NIH says it right on the site I linked to earlier. It’s way down at the bottom of the page.


#20

actually sometimes even the DNA is ambiguous. For example someone with three sex chromosones, XXY. Is that male or female? There’s a double X but also XY.


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