[quote="DarkLight, post:29, topic:301029"]
I know the teaching; I'm just not sure how this is relevant to the question here? As I understand it the issue of who can confect the eucharist is not the issue; the issue is one of what separates the Catholic understanding of transubstantiation from the one that Luther and others held to of consubstantiation, especially if you think that normally "accidents" are all there is to bread.
As to " consubstantiation " I don't know much. Luther did beleive in the real presence but only when actually being received and he believed that the bread and wine never disappeared, leaving only appearances, but that Christ became present with them. That's all I know. You can look in Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Dr. Ludwig Ott and see what you can make out. Protestants do not belive in the Real Presence. Wycliff did not believe in the Real Presence, nor did any of the rest of the Reformers.
You have to be careful defining the terms " substance, " " accident, " and " species " when talking about the doctrine of Transubstantian.
Scientifically, metaphysically, practically all three terms mean or can mean slightly different things. There is no universal agreement, for example, exactly what St. Thomas or any other Scholastic meant by them. Sometimes he would use " substance " as that underlying all the accidents of a being. Other times he used it somewhat as you would use nature or essence. Same with " accidents." But generally " accidents " were " attributes which adhered to or needed a substance, they had no existence or their own.
As far as the bread of the host is concened, physically, it is the exact same thing before transubstantian as afterwards. You can put in under a microscope and it is just the same before as after. Same for the wine. That is why I said you had to be careful. For Catholics, God is working a miracle here everytime the words of Consecration are pronounced. Suddenly the bread and wine are gone and Christ is present, whole and entire.
What you see, taste, touch, smell, measure are the " appearances " of bread and wine only. The " appearances " or " accidents " or " species " adhere to no substance at all. The substance of the bread and wine are gone and the substance of Christ is present but the " appearances " of bread and wine are not adhering to Him and you cannot see or sense any " accidents " normally sensed of a human body. He is there substantially but His accidents are hidden.
Firstly, we are dealing with His glorified body which has perfect control over matter ( he walked through walls, appeard suddenly out of nowhere, ate but didn't digest, floated on clouds, ascended into heaven, etc.) Secondly, he must make his presence in a way appropriate to the understanding to the people ( i.e. the unleavened bread of Passover, the Manna in the desert, the miracle of the loaves and fishes, changing water into wine at Cana, etc.).
Hope that helps. It is about as good as I can do. :thumbsup: