I haven’t gotten a chance to look at the links that you all have provided me – yet. But based on the words alone, I’m still seeing SYMBOLISM.
There’s a frequent reference to John 6, but how about John 4? When he speaks of Living Water, which is later revealed to be the Holy Spirit… we easily see the symbolism.
If we say that the Body and Blood of Christ is the Word and Spirit of Christ, we also see the symbolism. Actually, I think all Christians would see the symbolism… but Catholics see something MORE. They see ACTUAL, PHYSICAL flesh and blood… even tho the consecrated Eucharist would not be considered flesh and blood by ANY scientific definition, understanding, etc.
I just don’t understand what the point is. Consuming the Word and Spirit of Christ Jesus is just as effective to me as claiming that the PHYSICAL bread and wine has CHANGED PHYSICALLY (which, again, has/can not be scientifically proven as far as I’m aware). If the physical form of something is the substance, then there the consecration provides no transubstantiation. If the metaphysical / spirital form of something is the substance, then perhaps the consecration works.
I think this is one of the last stumbling blocks to me fully accepting Roman Catholicism as the ABSOLUTE Truth. I was going to say, “… last stumbling blocks to me fully accepting the Catholic faith”, but that wouldn’t be accurate as I have required logic and reasoning to believe in the Divine Creator, the Holy Spirit, and the existence of a man named Jesus (or Yeshua, rather?). So clearly there are answers out there for the Doubting Thomases, and I’d like to find those answers. In no way can I accept “just believe on faith” as an answer for my religion… because when the time comes to relay my understanding of the Truth to those around me, FAITH is a surefire way to uproot any seeds I was attempting to plant. Truth and faith do not deserve to be in the same thought process(es).
I will definitely be reviewing the links that you all have provided in this thread, either tonight or tomorrow. I hope it’s the concrete stuff that I can see or feel.
Perhaps I should’ve changed the thread title to “Can you prove transubstantiation to a scientist / atheist / agnostic / Jew / Muslim / etc.?”
Sola scripture only works for Protestants, right?
Question: “What did Jesus mean when He spoke of living water?”
Answer: Jesus uses the phrase “living water” in two instances in the Bible. The first instance is found in John chapter 4. Jesus was tired and sat at a well while His disciples went into town to buy food. A Samaritan woman came to draw water, and Jesus asked her for a drink. The Samaritan woman was quite shocked because Jesus was a Jew, and Jews simply hated the Samaritans. Of course, she had no idea who Jesus was and asked Him how He could ask her for water since He was a Jew.
Jesus ignored the question and went right to the point, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water” (John 4:10). Notice that He does not say that He is the living water, but that He would give living water to her, and when she received it, she would never thirst again. Of course, that does not tell us what the living water is! For that, we must go to another passage of Scripture. In this case, Jesus is in the temple surrounded by a throng of worshippers. He suddenly cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scriptures said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified” (John 7:37–39, emphasis added).
Here Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as the living water. External influence of the Spirit had always been given in the conversion and sanctification of the Old Testament saints and prophets, but the gift of the Spirit who would indwell believers had not yet been received (Acts 10:44–45). So, though many people say that Jesus is the living water, Jesus Himself intended the phrase to mean the Holy Spirit who dwells in believers and seals them for salvation (Ephesians 1:13–14). It is the ministry of the Spirit, flowing out of a heart redeemed by God, that blesses believers and, through them, brings life and light to the world.
Recommended Resource: Jesus: The Greatest Life of All by Charles Swindoll