Transubstantiation

There are some people who have an allergy to wheat or gluten and therefore will not receive the host. This confuses me. If transubstantiation is a true doctrine then that means that what appears to be bread is not bread…rather, it is the true flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. With that said, how could someone with a gluten allergy get sick from eating the host when it isn’t bread anymore?

Because the accidents of bread–the appearances of bread–remain. They are precisely the same before and after consecration. It is the substance that changes. The accidents remain.

But here’s the key: accidents are all that we can ever perceive–either before or after consecration. We never perceive substance directly. We perceive the accidents–those sense perceptions that can affect our senses.

Even if I perceive my brother standing in front of me, it is his accidents that I perceive–that which is perceptible to the senses. I can’t touch his substance with any of my senses directly.

Consequently, if we are allergic to the accidents of bread before the consecration, we will continue to be allergic to the accidents of bread after the consecration.

Just glad this topic doesn’t have the word mass in front of it,

Also, there are gluten free hosts available for consecration. I know a few people who are gluten free and arrange for this.

Low gluten, but not gluten free. Valid matter for the Eucharist would never be entirely gluten free.

If the gluten in the host after consecration did not act as gluten in the same host prior to consecration, then the accidents of the host would have changed.

Transubstantiation is the belief that each and every accident of the bread and wine remain after the consecration, yet they are truly the Body and Blood of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

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I’m not a troll…I am just searching to find answers that is all. No worries :slight_smile:

I do not understand why you would say this, a person is only asking a question ?

I am one of those unfortunate souls. Because the accidents remain the same, the body processes it the same way. The Eucharist feels the same as normal gluten, whether it is in my hand, mouth, or intestines. But the substance has become the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord. That actual substance is not perceptible to the senses.

Do you receive the host or drink the wine?

I still receive the Host.

Jesus is True Man
Jesus is True God

While Jesus was walking the Earth and preaching the Word, he was in every way possible physically the same as any other human. If you were to X-ray Jesus, if you were to perform a CAT scan on him, if you were to do a blood test on Jesus - all of these tests and observations would be indistinguishable from any other human. If you were to operate on Jesus, it is not like you would see some unique organ or “god-part” that made him divine. But, we know that Jesus was also God - and so not at all like any other human.

All of the sacraments in Church established by Christ have this very same nature.

If you were to analyze the Eucharist - it would physically appear just like any other bread, just like any other wine. But, we know - just like Christ - the Eucharist is completely unlike normal bread and wine.

If it did change, then it would be in opposition to the nature of Christ.

It’s ok folks,just my warped sense of humour ,I fell off the Clubhouse truck,

Hi praestat_fides :slight_smile:

Catholic’s believe when at His Last Supper, Jesus said: “This is my body”, what he held in his hands still had all the appearances of bread: the “species” or “accidents” remained unchanged. However, when Jesus made that declaration, the underlying reality (the “substance”) of the bread was changed into that of his body, blood, soul and divinity. In other words, it actually was his body, blood, soul and divinity, while all the appearances open to the senses or to scientific investigation (accidents) were still those of bread, exactly as before. We believe the same change of the substance of the bread and of the wine occurs at the consecration of the Eucharist.

Thus they can still get sick from the accidents or species that remain. Thus those with gluten intolerance can also recieve under the accidents of wine.

Now, you might be thinking *“Well, Josh, thats not much, I could say my wooden desk transformed into a metallic seat, the accidents of my wooden desk remain but the substance of it is a metallic seat.” *However, this is where scripture comes into it (John 6) and the many Eucharistic Miracles (not to mention personal experience but we can’t exactly use that as it’s just that, personal experience) I believe we are reassured of this teaching through the so many Eucharistic Miracles that have taken place throughout the history of the Catholic Church, just like the people were reassured before such teaching by Jesus’ feeding of the five thousand men.

What are Eucharistic Miracles? Throughout the history of the Catholic Church, Jesus has proven beyond any doubt that He is truly present in the Holy Eucharist. Why did He have to prove this to us? It is because at certain times in history, there were heresies that denied the Real Presence in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. On other occasions, some priests doubted the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. And yet, on other occasions, the Holy Eucharist was abused by believers and non-believers alike.

What follows are some of the Eucharistic Miracles that took place throughout the history of the Catholic Church. All of these have received the full approval of the Catholic Church.

Eucharistic Miracles of the World - therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

I would like to draw particular attention to two recent Eucharistic Miracles that have undergone vigerous scientific analysis.

Eucharistic Miracle of Poland, Sokólka, October 12, 2008

Sokólka, October 12, 2008 (Part 1) – (PDF: 1.41M)
Sokólka, October 12, 2008 (Part 2) – (PDF: 1.31M)
Sokólka, October 12, 2008 (Part 3) – (PDF: 1.41M)

And the Eucharistic Miracles of Argentina, Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996

(note: The scientific investigations into this Eucharistic Miracle were actually instigated and latter the miracle officially approved by Pope Francis then known as the Argentina Archbishop Jorge Bergoglio).

Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996 (part 1) - (PDF: 1.46M)
Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996 (part 2) - (PDF: 1.42M)
Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996 (part 3) - (PDF: 1.25M)

Please continue to next post -

The Sacred Heart Image (St Margaret-Mary Alacoque) -

http://s7.postimg.org/4jx43bm1n/Christ_7.jpg

This is the revelation which took place in June 1675 when St Margaret Mary was before the Blessed Sacrament (The Holy Eucharist). Our Lord said to her:

**"Behold this Heart, Which has loved men so much, that It has spared nothing, even to exhausting **(Crucifixion) **and consuming Itself, **(Last Supper, Eucharist) **in order to testify to them Its love; and in return I receive from the greater number nothing but ingratitude by reason of their irreverence and sacrileges, and by the coldness and contempt which they show Me in this Sacrament of Love. **(Referring to how people treat His real presense in the Holy Eucharist). But what I feel the most keenly is that it is hearts which are consecrated to Me that treat Me thus. Therefore, I ask of thee that the Friday after the Octave of Corpus Christi be set apart for a special feast to honour My Heart, by communicating on that day and making reparation to It by a solemn act, in order to make amends for the indignities which It has received during the time It has been exposed on the altars. I promise thee that My Heart shall expand Itself to shed in abundance the influence of Its divine love upon those who shall thus honour It, and cause It to be honoured."

What I also find interesting, is this occured in 1675 before any Eucharistic Miracle could be thoroughly scientificly analysed, and in these scientifically verified miracles, we find that it is not just any human tissue, but rather heart muscle tissue, from the left ventricle that gives the heart it’s beat!

Please continue to next post -

I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you (John 14:18)

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Hi all, haven’t been here in a while, and I was looking around for posts on the ‘real presence’, and wondering if anyone else has ever had the experience I’ve had in receiving Our Lord in Communion. Yesterday I received both the precious body and the precious blood which I don’t always do (both species). Upon returning to the pew and praying and thanking Jesus for this wonderful awesome gift He has given us, and after praying the Amina Christi (I always pray this prayer after Communion) I always make sure all traces of wine are gone from my lips etc. It was unmistakable and really took me back when upon licking my lips, I unmistakably tasted blood. Having tasted blood many times in my life to date from different mouth procedures etc, it’s hard not to recognize the taste. I was so taken back, it was hard to regain my composure!! That’s never really happened to me before, but when I was very young, I remember a few times the host felt almost as if it was vibrating on my tongue, and of course wondered about it, but never really said anything to anyone. Wondering, has anyone else had any similar experiences? Is this maybe more common than I’m aware? Keep in mind though, that this doesn’t always happen, in fact, don’t think it EVER has with the precious blood. I always lick my lips when receiving the precious blood as I do (unlike some) really believe in the real presence, and don’t want any traces to be ‘hanging around’ on my lips, if you know what I mean:) I am STILL in shock about this…thoughts?

These “types” of experiences are not as rare as some may think, and yes, I have had Eucharistic experiences, although not exactly the same as yours, which would fall into the same category.

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