Tridentine Catholic Church?

Should the indult be done away with? imho, it has not worked well.
Then instead of indult masses just establish a Tridentine Rite, similar to the Anglican churches coming over. That way local bishops woln’t have us “traditionalists” to deal with us. An Apostlolic Vicar to oversee in Rome, just like several Orientals and Easterns have.

Your comments please…

[quote=Steve Green]Should the indult be done away with? imho, it has not worked well.
Then instead of indult masses just establish a Tridentine Rite, similar to the Anglican churches coming over. That way local bishops woln’t have us “traditionalists” to deal with us. An Apostlolic Vicar to oversee in Rome, just like several Orientals and Easterns have.

Your comments please…
[/quote]

That sounds like a good idea! Do you know if this has been considered by anyone in Rome? I’ve also heard the possibility of a universal indult from Rome (any priest could say the TLM without permission from bishop) But explain why you think the indult hasn’t worked well, please. :cool:

[quote=Steve Green]Should the indult be done away with? imho, it has not worked well.
Then instead of indult masses just establish a Tridentine Rite, similar to the Anglican churches coming over. That way local bishops woln’t have us “traditionalists” to deal with us.
[/quote]

I guess I should consider myself lucky, because our bishop is very supportive of the Tridentine Mass. unavoce.org/news/2005/lexington.html

First ANY priest may say the TLM without the bishop’s permission. That is something most do not understand. It is the public use that has been restricted due to the NO of 1970, Yes, I have read that the Apostlolic Vicar is what many in the Pius X and Frat. of St. Peter want. And there is a chance for a universal indult. But my question is how would this work seeing most priests don’t have a Latin faculty. And, the local bishop would think or say it would confuse the people. I am more prone to the AV and a separate western rite in the Roman Church. Why Not?
Only about half the diocese here in the US and elsewhere get the indult mass on a weekly basis. It was suppose to be wide and generous. It hasn’t. Strange hours and locations for the indult are prevelant ask someone in our second largest city L.A.

I would love to see the new pope celebrate the TLM on Christmas !!!

That would be nice- that way there would be no worry of indults being taken away- there would be no indults at all- just a rite side by side with another rite. They could build their own churches- no freestanding altars to negotiate around- just the traditional High Altar, no ‘reconcilliation rooms’- just the traditional confessional, no OPC magazines in the hymnal rack- just traditional hymnals, communion rails- a guarantee. I’m all for it.

exactly

Given the already apparent problems, I don’t see it happening. There are enough people who disent from the teachings of Vatican 2 and the authority of the Church on the fringe of those who like the TLM that they spoil the opportunity for wider useage.

It should be remembered that the Church is not in the model of business, with the Pope as CEO and the bishops as managers. The position of bishop, not only in his diocese, but in the Universal Church, is a postion that is something more than a minion. Unless the bishops solidly back that change, it won’t happen; in part because that is the personality of the current Pope, and in part because that is how decisions like this are made. And the bishops are the ones who take the heat from the fringe elements.

heat from the fringe meaning the modernists who would want nothing of the sort in the diocese. I agree.

However, I think most bishops would support it !!! They would not have to finance them and it would give all the new priests somewhere to go.

[quote=Anima Christi]That sounds like a good idea!
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I 2nd that motion.

Campos Brazil has an apostlolic vicor when the Pius X community there was formally brought into full union with Rome. I hear mix things about how things are going. I believe the vicar was just here in the US. Independent churches with an AV would be ideal. What good is a universal indult if the pastor or bishop puts pressure not to celebrate. And here is something to think about . Do you want moderist priests having a fieldday with the TLM. They would not pay attention to the rubrics, altar girls, communion in the hand. They would destroy it !!!

This is my worst nightmare.

Tridentine Catholic Church may not be the best wording… Any ideas ?

Why is the Anglican Use mentioned? These priests and groups (only a handful, and only in this country) are all subject to their local bishops.

I digress, are they under the local ordinary?

[quote=Steve Green]heat from the fringe meaning the modernists who would want nothing of the sort in the diocese. I agree.

However, I think most bishops would support it !!! They would not have to finance them and it would give all the new priests somewhere to go.
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No, I mean heat from the fringe, as in the conservatists who walk the line of almost, or outright denying the licitness and legitimacy of the Pauline rite.

I disagree that most bishops would support it; most states alrteady have the indult, and it is to a limited extent, and I think that limitation is speaking volumes. Some don’t want to hear it.

And as to having somewhere for the new priests to go, there is absolutely no lack now.

Not a very good idea, to create more division isn’t that constructive.

Because the “Tridentines” would be a minority, they would be in a position to either have to solicit new members from the Mainstream Catholic Church, or face the probability of withering away due to their members intermarrying with the Mainstreamers.

This would undoubtably cause friction in the church

Yes, they are under the local bishop. Permission is simply given for the groups (less than a dozen in the US) to use the Book of Divine Worship (a revised version of BCP); there is no separate structure. The Tridentine indult is a great success, when compared with the Anglican Use provision.

[quote=Steve Green]I digress, are they under the local ordinary?
[/quote]

Any priest that says Mass legitimately is under the authority of the local bishop and does so only with explicit permission, Those who do no seek that permission, or act in violation of it, are subject to canonical penalties up to and including excommunication.

[quote=Chatter163]Yes, they are under the local bishop. Permission is simply given for the groups (less than a dozen in the US) to use the Book of Divine Worship (a revised version of BCP); there is no separate structure. The Tridentine indult is a great success, when compared with the Anglican Use provision.
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I don’t think that I would use the word “success”, as there are few places where the Anglican Use would have any point; it is specific to Anglicans who have joined the Church and assumes an Anglican priest who has also joined the Church and been ordained. Even assuming that one had the Anglican priest who has been ordained, there are not likely to be enough former Anglican or Epsicopalian parishoners to form a parish.

The Anglican Use liturgy for the Mass seems to be every thing the Novus Ordo should have been.

according to a list of latin masses listed on the traditio website,
there are many independent chapels throughout the united states and canada. most of them, according to the reports if have hear, are expanding. the vatican has a large problems with them considering they all have duly ordained priests and consecrated bishops.
from what i have found out, it appears that although rome might like to see them go-away, they grudgingly acknowledge their sacrments, masses and liturgies are valid but, they add the but, are illicit. (done without formal approval). go figure!
there are also seminaries and in some places religious instruction mostly according to the baltimore catechism. hope this little info is helpful. have a good year. keeper.

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