Tridentine Mass Age Restriction?

I recently read an article from an old magazine from 1985 that stated there was an age restriction in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee to those who went to the Tridentine Mass.
They said
"…most people too young to have participated in a Tridentine Liturgy also would be disqualified from attendance."
Also it said you needed permission to attend by writing a letter for approval from the chancery.
I was wondering if that really was still going on and are there really dioceses that have things like that.

An age restriction in Milwaukee? 1985 !

Maybe the Bishop that gave that interview to the magazine is no longer there. I do not know why he would restrict younger ones from the Tridentine Mass. I don’t think there are any Canon Laws against that. It could have been a misquote.

Yes according to the Indult rules that is a valid assertion. Sadly, just shows how the Vatican loves us, when they prohibit young people from attending the Traditional Latin Mass!

[quote=katolik]Yes according to the Indult rules that is a valid assertion. Sadly, just shows how the Vatican loves us, when they prohibit young people from attending the Traditional Latin Mass!
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Are age restrictions actually enforced anywhere? I know where I go there are lots of babies and little kids.

They were but now they aren’t. BUT there are other restrictions or additions to the TLM possible such as addition of the “prayers of the Faithful” to Mass or use of the New Mass readings.

[quote=katolik]Yes according to the Indult rules that is a valid assertion. Sadly, just shows how the Vatican loves us, when they prohibit young people from attending the Traditional Latin Mass!
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Dear katolik,

Would you please tell me where I could find rules for the indult?

Or are those just rules for a Milwaukee Archdiocese indult?

Thanks, Anna

[quote=CathMass]I recently read an article from an old magazine from 1985 that stated there was an age restriction in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee to those who went to the Tridentine Mass.
They said
"…most people too young to have participated in a Tridentine Liturgy also would be disqualified from attendance."
Also it said you needed permission to attend by writing a letter for approval from the chancery.
I was wondering if that really was still going on and are there really dioceses that have things like that.
[/quote]

Was that scummer Rembert Weakland in charge of Milwaukee back then? That might explain a lot.

[quote=Nota Bene]Was that scummer Rembert Weakland in charge of Milwaukee back then? That might explain a lot.
[/quote]

Such a disgrace. How disrespectful to speak of a Bishop of the Catholic Church in such a way.

With attitudes like this it is no wonder that some with a vocation to the priesthood do not follow it.

I do not think an age restriction is a good idea, but then the Church knows better than I do.

What I do think a good idea is having a test to test for basic knowledge of Latin. If you do not pass the test you should not attend.

Ecclesia Dei never put any age restrictions… that is a FALSE interpretation of the words that say the Indult is for those who have an “attachment to the Old Latin Liturgy”… it doesn’t say this attachment had to exist from when the person attended the Mass as a child or in the past… (e.g. if that were the case, you would need to be 50 + to attend the Mass today… that is just ridiculous. So the people can’t bring their children? What are the people who are around 50 and have children in their teens supposed to do with their 15 yrs olds? Just leave them at home? I mean… come on. That is one of the most illogical readings that could be rendered from the text of Ecclesia Dei. And since these people obviously can bring their children to Mass, and then the children can have this “attachment to the Latin Liturgy” it follows that the attachment to such a Liturgy was not necessary to have occured back when the Latin Mass was the norm.

[quote=ByzCath]Such a disgrace. How disrespectful to speak of a Bishop of the Catholic Church in such a way.

With attitudes like this it is no wonder that some with a vocation to the priesthood do not follow it.

I do not think an age restriction is a good idea, but then the Church knows better than I do.

What I do think a good idea is having a test to test for basic knowledge of Latin. If you do not pass the test you should not attend.
[/quote]

There’s no need for a Latin test. The missals have the translation in English next to the Latin so you can follow along. The epistle and Gospel are also read in English after Latin and the homilee is in English. Plus, you can pick up latin quick just by going. The same thing is said every week. I couldn’t undrstand a word of it when I first started going, now I don’t even need the English translation. And I’ve been going for less than a year!:slight_smile:

Here’s a link that’s helpful:
sacred-texts.com/chr/lmass/ord.htm

[quote=Genesis315]There’s no need for a Latin test. The missals have the translation in English next to the Latin so you can follow along. The epistle and Gospel are also read in English after Latin and the homilee is in English. Plus, you can pick up latin quick just by going. The same thing is said every week. I couldn’t undrstand a word of it when I first started going, now I don’t even need the English translation. And I’ve been going for less than a year!:slight_smile:

Here’s a link that’s helpful:
sacred-texts.com/chr/lmass/ord.htm
[/quote]


Yes, this is absolutely correct. I checked the Mass given in your address and it is just like my 1955 St. Joseph;s Missal. And it is not a requirement to know some Latin in order to attent a Latin Mass. You will be surprised how easy it is to keep up.

[quote=Genesis315]There’s no need for a Latin test. The missals have the translation in English next to the Latin so you can follow along. The epistle and Gospel are also read in English after Latin and the homilee is in English. Plus, you can pick up latin quick just by going. The same thing is said every week. I couldn’t undrstand a word of it when I first started going, now I don’t even need the English translation. And I’ve been going for less than a year!:slight_smile:

Here’s a link that’s helpful:
sacred-texts.com/chr/lmass/ord.htm
[/quote]

Actually, yes, if you are reading along on the English side of a missal you can follow the Trad Latin Mass. But I do not think reading along is actually praying.

I would also add that the Missal you speak of costs some money and not all can afford it.

The Trad Latin Mass I attended only did the Gospel in both Latin and English, I do not recall fully, but I believe that the Epistle was done in Latin only.

Also, just learning the responses is not enough.

I have heard of a bishop who was approached by a monastery in his diocese who wanted to celebrate the Office and Mass in Latin. He gave them a month and returned to test them on their profeciency in Latin. It takes more than just being able to parrot the Latin to truly pray in it.

[quote=ByzCath]Actually, yes, if you are reading along on the English side of a missal you can follow the Trad Latin Mass. But I do not think reading along is actually praying.

I would also add that the Missal you speak of costs some money and not all can afford it.

The Trad Latin Mass I attended only did the Gospel in both Latin and English, I do not recall fully, but I believe that the Epistle was done in Latin only.

Also, just learning the responses is not enough.

I have heard of a bishop who was approached by a monastery in his diocese who wanted to celebrate the Office and Mass in Latin. He gave them a month and returned to test them on their profeciency in Latin. It takes more than just being able to parrot the Latin to truly pray in it.
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We actually have pretty cheap missalettes that are basically the link I posted earlier stapled together along with some other prayers. They put an insert in each week with the readings. As for reading along being actual praying, sure it is. There’s lots of prayers that I haven’t memorized that I need to read to pray. Are you saying that’s not actually praying?

[quote=Genesis315]We actually have pretty cheap missalettes that are basically the link I posted earlier stapled together along with some other prayers. They put an insert in each week with the readings. As for reading along being actual praying, sure it is. There’s lots of prayers that I haven’t memorized that I need to read to pray. Are you saying that’s not actually praying?
[/quote]

No, those prayers you are reading are in English and you know and speak English.

When the prayers are in Latin and are being done in Latin, your reading the English is not praying the prayers as what you are reading is not what is being said.

You are reading a translation of the Latin so it is not the samething, in all translations the translator must interpret. Unless these missals you are speaking of are transliterations but even if they are, the prayers being said are in Latin and you are reading along in English and parroting the responses.

Sorry, but in my opinion, its not the same.

[quote=ByzCath]No, those prayers you are reading are in English and you know and speak English.

When the prayers are in Latin and are being done in Latin, your reading the English is not praying the prayers as what you are reading is not what is being said.

You are reading a translation of the Latin so it is not the samething, in all translations the translator must interpret. Unless these missals you are speaking of are transliterations but even if they are, the prayers being said are in Latin and you are reading along in English and parroting the responses.

Sorry, but in my opinion, its not the same.
[/quote]

Oh, I see your point now. Yes, this is true that something is lost in translation. But wouldn’t this view then be against the Mass in the vernacular altogether?

I don’t like to say it, but there’s a lot of parroting going on no matter what kind of Mass it is. It depends on the individual I think. I mean, I’m sure many people just recite the Our Father without really praying it. You know what I mean?

No Latin test shouldn’t be required. There is no requirement that we understand the words of the Mass only that we are attentive to what is happening. Ideally, the Mass includes an oportunity to hear portions of Scripture and to be given teaching via the homily. But even that isn’t a requirement to properly assist at Mass.

I attend Mass in Spanish now since there is no English Mass available. I read along in the missalette but have little idea what I am saying except for the “standard” prayers like the Our Father, Creed, Kyrie etc. Does this diminish my assistance at Mass? NO. It diminishes my participation and one could say that I get less out of Mass. But Mass isn’t about what you get, it’s about what you give. Judging Mass by what you get out of it is a trap that has led so many parishes to feel compelled to entertain and engage us instead of feeding us spiritually.

I can sing and pray in any language and I am still lifting my heart to God, whether I understand the words or not.

BTW: All of the Latin Masses I have attended, both before and after the introduction of the current normative Mass, had all of the readings and the homily in the vernacular.

[quote=ByzCath]Actually, yes, if you are reading along on the English side of a missal you can follow the Trad Latin Mass. But I do not think reading along is actually praying…
[/quote]

By using this logic, it would seem to indicate that a priest reading the Eucharistic Prayer, etc, would not be praying. Hmmmm. :slight_smile:

[quote=tpmjr42]By using this logic, it would seem to indicate that a priest reading the Eucharistic Prayer, etc, would not be praying. Hmmmm. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Guess you did not read what I said.

So I will state it again.

When one is reading a translation of the language being used and does not know the language being spoken, that is reading in English when Latin is being spoken, one is not really praying as what is read is not what is being said.

So if a priest is reading the Eucharistic Prayer in English but is praying it in Latin and he does not know Latin, then no I guess he would not be praying.

Admit it, you didn’t use logic.

[quote=ByzCath]No, those prayers you are reading are in English and you know and speak English.

When the prayers are in Latin and are being done in Latin, your reading the English is not praying the prayers as what you are reading is not what is being said.

You are reading a translation of the Latin so it is not the samething, in all translations the translator must interpret. Unless these missals you are speaking of are transliterations but even if they are, the prayers being said are in Latin and you are reading along in English and parroting the responses.

Sorry, but in my opinion, its not the same.
[/quote]

Sorry to do this again :slight_smile: so are you now saying the vernacular NO Mass is not same thing as the Latin NO? Since the NO is actually a Latin text and *translated *(rather badly by ICEL, btw) it can be inferred from your statement that since the translations are not literal, we’re not praying the real prayers.

That being said, I’ll agree with you to the extent that we need a much better translation of the NO Mass :slight_smile:

[quote=ByzCath]Guess you did not read what I said.

So I will state it again.

When one is reading a translation of the language being used and does not know the language being spoken, that is reading in English when Latin is being spoken, one is not really praying as what is read is not what is being said.

So if a priest is reading the Eucharistic Prayer in English but is praying it in Latin and he does not know Latin, then no I guess he would not be praying.

Admit it, you didn’t use logic.
[/quote]

Actually, I was referring to your quote, “But I do not think reading along is actually praying,” and that’s what I was commenting on. No logic needed :slight_smile:

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