Tridentine Mass and 1962 Missal

Hello everyone,

I hope you all will forgive me, but I’m not Catholic yet, and so I will be showing a great deal of ignorance with this post. :smiley:

I have Scepter’s lovely Daily Roman Missal (the one edited by Reverend James Socias) and I read through each day’s Mass as part of my prayers in the evening. I enjoy this very much, and - in the bits that have a Latin translation - enjoy trying to build my Latin comprehension. Having not attended Mass (of any sort) yet, I’m also using it to give myself a better idea of what would be said at a Mass. I find the Biblical translation used a bit … off-putting sometimes, though (I’m a Douay-Rheims girl!)… it lacks the gravity I’d hoped for, for lack of a better way to word it.

So it’s with great interest that I’ve been reading various news blurbs (and comments here) about the Motu Proprio, Tridentine Mass and 1962 Missals and so forth. I’m wondering …

… how different is it? Other than the Latin bit, of course, because that’s all I actually DO know for certain, that the Mass is celebrated in Latin. :blush:

But beyond that, is the content quite different? If I do get the new Baronius Press missal when it is published, am I going to see a difference beyond more Latin? Is it still going to have the ‘extra’ bits in it, such as the descriptions of the Stations of the Cross?

I crave a more ‘traditional’ approach… but as I wasn’t raised Catholic, I have to admit I don’t know if ‘traditional’ ends up excluding the wannabe Catholic that is still finding her footing in a wonderfully, richly complex religion.

Thank you so much, I hope the question isn’t too stupid! :shrug:

Hello Deb,

Not being a Catholic yet will work in your favor, because you haven’t picked up any bad habits yet. The traditional Mass is Revelation directly from God, therefore what is ministered to us during the Mass on Sunday we are called by God to work on during the week. There is the Epistle and Gospel that is read to us from the Bible, and then a Homily (sermon) by the priest. Those things are paramount to living a Christina life during the following week. Everything that the priest says is lead my the Holy Spirit and is directed to people in the congregation.

Apparently, you missed last Sunday’s traditional Mass in Latin so I’ll pass on what we should be working on this week. (II Corinthians 3: 4-9) was the Epistle for last Sunday’s Mass. It was about the Letter and the Spirit. “The letter killeth, but the spirit quickeneth.” The letter is the law, so during the week we should be well aware of Satan’s efforts to killeth us with the letter, and also ponder on how the Spirit has set us free.

The Gospel was (Luke 10: 23-37) about Jesus expecting us Christians to be like him and to overcome our natural shortcomings. Well, sorry you missed the Homily (sermon), because the Bible says the faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. That means that you must be present for your faith it be strengthened.

This message is getting long, but basically, to be a traditional anything means more than just going to a church on Sunday. It means a lot of Bible reading, prayer meetings, and discussions during the week about the Revelations received during last Sunday’s Mass

My prayers are with you;

That was a thoughtful and very helpful response, holy_roamer - thank you very much!

:blessyou:

Thanks for the kind words. A portion of my midweek walk with the Lord is listening to next Sunday’s Gregorian Chants. I load these free from the Internet into my MP3 player. Here is the link for next Sunday’s Tridentine High Mass:

198.62.75.1/www2/cantgreg/trid_dXIIIpostPentecosten.html

The Latin Missal you asked about depends on the priesthood doing the traditional mass. The traditional church that I am in is run by the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priesthood, and they us a Latin Missal that is slightly different than the 1962 Missal. In the section for the prayers after Low Mass in parentheses is says (Omitted in the 1962 Missal).

I think it would be best to get yourself into a Traditional Catholic Latin Mass as soon as possible, and submit to the ministry of that church. In other words, don’t worry about any of the technical aspects of church law, the priesthood, or the sacrifice of the mass. A church is a church, and all Christians need a Sunday Church service to guide them through quicksands of deception that will follow during the week until next Sunday.

Thank you for the link - that is lovely! Interesting … I wouldn’t have expected there to be a difference in Missals (of course, there is a great deal I don’t know). I very much appreciate your help.

Surprisingly, there IS a traditional church near me - I say ‘surprising’ because, as far as I have been able to ascertain, it’s the ONLY traditional church in quite a vast area. I will have to visit them.

Thank you and bless you again for all your help.

I love your enthusiasm!

One suggestion would be to find out if the “traditional” church near you is in full communion with Rome.

Another would be to attend both the Ordinary Rite and the Extraordinary Rite Masses with an open mind. Both rites are beautiful. Use the small “booklet” missals that may be provided in each church before you invest a lot of money in one that may very well end up on a shelf gathering dust after you’ve changed your mind, unless of course you’re like me and can never have too many books.

I attend a chapel run by the Fraternity of Saint Peter, (FSSP), they are in full communion with Rome,…when I asked the priest which of the 1962 Missal’s to buy; the Baronius Press or the Angelus Press editions,…he told that either one would do nicely.

Hmmm…Let’s see…what is so wonderful about the Traditional Latin Mass…
Oh I know!!!
It’s the most beautiful thing this side of Heaven!

The Baronius Press Missal is good, I have one and like it. Also, if you want to really learn the Mass and learn more about it, I would recommend the Book “The Holy Mass” by: Dom Prosper Gueranger which just so happens to be published by Baronius also.
baroniuspress.com/book.php?wid=56&bid=16
Also, if you look on the FSSP website at www.fssp.com and look under publications, you can find a few books about the Mass that can help to follow it better.
May Jesus, Mary and Joseph be with you always!

<<This message is getting long, but basically, to be a traditional anything means more than just going to a church on Sunday. It means a lot of Bible reading, prayer meetings, and discussions during the week about the Revelations received during last Sunday’s Mass>>

And those serious-minded faithful who attend the NO or Byzantine Liturgy or any other will say and do EXACTLY the same things!

beaming Aren’t you kind - thank you!

Do you mind a daft question? How would I find that out? (would the priest be offended if I asked? Or is there some way to find out before I go?)

I like that idea …

chortling I am definitely like you in that respect - money spent on books is never wasted. And even if I did find I preferred one over the other, I would definitely want to be well-informed about the one not chosen!

I very much wondered about that … the Baronius website says that they are ‘the only publisher of a Church approved edition of the 1962 Roman Missal’, and somewhere (I can’t seem to find where now, but Amazon seems likely), there were some heated opinions expressed about the … validity, I guess, of the Angelus Press version. The word ‘heretical’ wasn’t employed, I don’t think, but that was the general tone of the comments.

I found that odd. How could there be an ‘unapproved’ Missal, or am I missing something completely?

Thank you so much for your helpful response, my dear! :heaven:

Now there’s a good answer! :slight_smile:

Ooh, thank you - I saw that on their website and wondered!

click Oh my … LOOK at those books!

This is splendid - bless you, my dear, and thank you!! :hug1:

:rotfl: I needed to know that too - thank you!

As you study this more, you will learn more about church politics. Unfortunately, this is a curse new Catholics have to deal with. The important thing is to remember that people are not perfect and charity is important.

The Missal published by Angelus Press may be problematic for some because Angelus Press is owned by a group called the Society of St. Pius X, which is, to put it most kindly, in an irregular relationship with Rome. Some consider it schismatic. There is debate about this all over the Internet. I would prefer the Angelus Missal because it appears to be thinner, and I don’t like books that are too thick.

Just ask your priest whether he considers himself independent or is a of SSPX or some other order. If your church has a Web site, we can help you determine its status.

I assumed it would be a touchy subject, and even hesitated saying anything about it. I do know there a lot of members here who know a lot more about the situation than I.
I have copies of both of the missals in question (Angelus and Baronius),…and although the Baronius is in fact, quite thicker, I think the thicker pages are easier to turn,…and I love the easier-on-the-eyes font. But again, our priest told me that either one would work just fine.:slight_smile:

nodding I’ve seen a little bit of that… I guess it’s difficult for everyone, when what keeps the faith meaningful for one group seems blatantly wrong to another, and vice versa. At least we’re all trying to achieve the same end, and that’s a good thing.

Thank you so much for the tactful explanation (and I’m happy to finally realize what ‘SSPX’ is!) - that is a big help!

:slight_smile: That was thoughtful of you - I’m so sorry if I put you in an uncomfortable position by blundering in with a loaded question! Perhaps I should have avoided asking that, when it was obviously something people have strong feelings about … but of course, if one doesn’t ask here, where can the question be asked?

Hey, that’s what matters! :slight_smile: And thank you for the tip!

Deb,

I think that I gave you some bad information about the missal booklets that we are using. It is in fact, the 1962 Typical Edition of the Missal Romamum, and the English translations, pious prayer and devotions are compiled from several traditional missals, all issued with Ecclesiastical Approbation. www.ecclesiadei.org

There are a few start-up Catholic Churches around, and where the problem lies is on the English side of the Missal where it could end up like the sheets we use to follow a French Opera.

The way I look at it, I can pray at Mass as a Protestant, but I don’t pray the Mass. That leaves me free to test the waters before I jump in.

And hello again! :slight_smile:

Another excellent website, thank you! (and how pitiful that I had to look up ‘typical edition’ to see what that meant. I’m finding there’s a lot of Catholic English to learn, not just Latin, but it’s certainly been an interesting learning experience)

grinning I’ve wondered. I only recognize the occasional Latin word (or think I recognize ones that are similar to English), but even that is enough to occasionally think the English translation is perhaps a bit … odd.

I think that’s a wise way to look at it - and again, I am indebted to you for your help.

Bless you, dear!

Hello Deb,

Here it is Sunday evening again, and your post has slipped down to the bottom of the page. That doesn’t mean that we forgot about you. Just wondering if you got into a Traditional Catholic Church with a Latin Mass. If so, what 1962 Missal did you use?

The church that I was in today was celebrating the Thirteenth Sunday after Pentecost and the Epistle was (Galatians 3: 16-22) and the Gospel was (Luke 17: 11-19). Those are what we are supposed to be pondering and studying during this week. In case you missed the Homily, I’ll relay the high points of what our priest said.

The Gospel was about Jesus meeting 10 men who were lepers. The Samaritan was the only one healed, the priest made the point that the church is the Samaritan and the only one who can heal. I never heard Luke 17 explained that way.

The priest explained the Epistle, and the point that stuck with me was that we Christians can enjoy some of Heaven while here on earth. However, I didn’t catch what part of Heaven that was.

Remember that your Christian friends haven’t forgotten about you.

This is somewhat confusing. The Gospel says they were all healed of their leprosy (made clean). But only the Samaritan returned to Jesus to glorify God:And as he entered into a certain town, there met him ten men that were lepers, who stood afar off; And lifted up their voice, saying: Jesus, master, have mercy on us. Whom when he saw, he said: Go, shew yourselves to the priests. And it came to pass, as they went, they were made clean. And one of them, when he saw that he was made clean, went back, with a loud voice glorifying God.
However, he alone did receive from Jesus something beyond a bodily healing:And he fell on his face before his feet, giving thanks: and this was a Samaritan. And Jesus answering, said, Were not ten made clean? and where are the nine? There is no one found to return and give glory to God, but this stranger. And he said to him: Arise, go thy way; for thy faith hath made thee whole.
Perhaps the priest was speaking of salvation through Jesus when he linked the Samaritan with the Church. For example, the end of this passage is rendered this way in the New American Bible:“Has none but this foreigner returned to give thanks to God?” Then he said to him, “Stand up and go; your faith has saved you.”

Yes, you are right about the ten lepers being healed. There were 9 Jews and 1 Samaritan, and the priest used the Samaritan to made a point that the love of Jesus extends to Gentiles and sinners, and to all those in need. The priest also connected the healing power of the Church with the Samaritan.

Thanks for getting my post corrected, because me helping Deb is like the blind leading the blind. I’m used to attending Protestant churches, and during the sermon we usually have pencil and paper plus our bibles. There are usually giant video screens with text printed on them and cassette tapes of the sermon available for $5.

Getting my midweek bible study and meditation synchronized with last Sundays Mass has been a challenge. Any suggestions for doing it the traditional way?

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