One of the parishes which we don’t attend anymore,has a priest just as condescending. He told the parish one time he was glad to throw away his weird black hat with the pom pom on top. He also at other times made fun of certain saints alluding to their sanity. He also makes it quite clear that women are needed as priests. And has a ruputation of “screaming” if you approach
him on any of these issues.
And from another parish, the priest made it quite clear
that one day we may have a female pope! :eek:
Yes, Mother Angelica once said "…lots of people are complaining about the ‘electric Masses’ they are attending.
They are always ‘SHOCKED’:eek:
My husband and I just moved on.:shrug:
We have a tiny parish. There are maybe 100-150 people there on Sunday at most. Our Priest is awesome, but was a little taken back by some of us wanting the TLM at our parish. He spoke on it for a couple of weeks and told us he didn’t know it , but we could bring an upstanding Priest in to celebrate it. He said he would learn it and teach us it, as well as order the missals. He said this would not happen overnight. That it must be done properly and would be a year or two before we where ready for weekday celebration’s and on special feast’s. I hope I don’t die before then as that is the Mass I want at my funeral if possible. I witnessed a Byzantine funeral before and it was touching, esp. when they sealed the casket with the cross until the resurrection. It was two days of ceremony and chant. Now thats a send off. Tim
Two things in this thread struck me kind of between the eyes. The first were statements to the effect that we are not at Mass to get something out of it. If we get nothing why bother? Are people to be like Burmese Prayer wheels, going through the motions with total disinterest to please God. He told Isaiah, “I want your love, not your sacrifices” because though the Israelites did the rituals just so, their hearts were far away. The second one was calling a priest a fool. The priest may be misguided, but to call someone a fool was not in Jesus’ collection of sayings. I go to Mass to worship, praise and adore God, but sure expect to get something in return. It may be a very lopsided relationship, but it is a relationship.
What I expect from a Mass is due reverence towards Our Eucharistic Lord, and a sermon/homily that is in accordance with the Pope and the Magisterium (Teachings of the Church). Or in other words, that a Catholic Mass be truly Catholic. And certainly having these expectations met personally enriches me and my spiritual growth, and that is as it should be.
As for belittling priests, we would all do better to pray for them.
In the context of a Latin Mass versus Mass in the local language - certainly repeating prayers in Latin, when you don’t understand Latin is QUITE like spinning the Burmese Prayer wheels. How interested can YOU get, and how much praise can you do while chanting Latin. Now if Latin is your local language, and you speak it quite well - then, the Latin Mass is probably the best thing for you to go to.
As God is my creator, the fountain of holiness and the author of beauty, good, justice, etc., and my creation is totally undeserved, I go to Mass to praise and worship God. I expect nothing in return.
If you happen to be a soul whom the Lord draws into contemplative prayer through the Latin Mass, you will understand that language transcended can bring Love such as no words in any human language can express.
I do not follow along in a Missal, though one day I might and I fully respect those who are drawn to pray with the Missal. I do not hear or understand every single word of the Latin, even though my three years of high school Latin class taken years and years ago help a bit. But it appears that God chooses to reach out to me at the Latin Mass in a special way with the Gift of His Holy Presence in a way that is, for me at least, rarer and/or less intense during most English-language Masses.
Here in the Philippines, I’ve heard that many priests are against bringing the TLM back. They say that it’s simply unworkable. I see that, in some ways, it is true: more than a generation has passed and many who were born after the 60s do not know the TLM, have not gone to TLM, and will only be confused if it’s brought back.
Although the TLM might be more entertaining (for a time at least) for those who’ve never seen it, or more “mysterious” (until you figure it out), how can one possibly worship and praise God better in a language you don’t understand versus one that you do?
It’s the laity themselves who are charged with bringing it back. Traditional Latin Masses aren’t simply going to “appear” and start “confusing” people. They have to be requested by a stable group of faithful.
There’s absolutely no valid reason to oppose the liberalization of the Traditional Mass. It simply gives people the freedom to attend a Mass which they find spiritually enriching.
The value in Latin is that it isn’t an ‘everyday’ language. It is precisely because it isn’t used in everyday speech that it has such value in the liturgy. It focuses our hearts on higher things. It helps us to recognize the sacredness and other-worldliness of the Eucharist. It sets worship apart as something special - not something mundane.
If Latin were the “local language”, this simply wouldn’t hold true. It’s value would be diminished. The Holy Spirit, though, in His wisdom, has maintained Latin uniquely as our liturgical language - a language which points us to the holiness of the Mass.
Well, that’s the problem–there are few people who remember what the TLM was. So we see here already a problem of who will even make the request in the first place. Those who have not gone to one will not just up and about and start requesting it; they don’t know it, nor are aware of it. Even if they are, they are unfamiliar with it. For them it is confusing–they know the Mass as it is now, not how it was. There needs to be a massive re-education of the laity concerning the TLM if people want to bring it back. Requests won’t just happen overnight.
I see your point - having a special language for the liturgy (or for praying, etc.) can emphasize that this is a special event.
That’s why I support the Thee’s and Thou’s in the Hail Mary, Our Father, etc. It reminds us that this isn’t the next door neighbor we’re talking to.
But to have the whole liturgy in Latin - sorry.
Remember, Latin WAS the local language of the entire Roman Empire and most of Western Europe for maybe 1500 years. If the early popes had wanted the whole thing to be special, they should have picked Persian or Chinese. To emphasize how special the mass is, of course. But they didn’t. They picked the local language - Latin.
PS I’ve been to perhaps 2000 TLM masses earlier in my life. Have you (and the other supporters?)
PPS I’m all for more reverence during Mass. I’m not against the return of other elements of the TLM, only the L part.
Once the Traditional Latin Mass becomes more visible, interest will grow. I think today’s EWTN TLM will help in this regard. Even if interest doesn’t grow, no harm done! Everyone can attend whatever form of the Mass they want!
It isn’t that simple, I’m afraid. Those who’ve lived through TLM aren’t that much interested either since they’ve become comfortable with the Mass now. As I’ve stated, it will take more than just an occasional showing of the TLM on TV or cable. People won’t be that much interested in it; some might be curious. Others will find it a novelty. But such things are not permanent. To make it lasting, there has to be a sustained interest, and education will play that part in sustaining it.
Even if interest doesn’t grow, no harm done! Everyone can attend whatever form of the Mass they want!
If that is the case, then the case for the TLM is doomed from the start, as this is the thinking of many people today.
If you don’t want a Mass entirely in Latin, don’t go! There are those of us, though, who find Latin particularly edifying and uplifting. What problem could there be in allowing us to attend the Mass of our choice?
It’s true that the Latin was originally the vernacular when it was introduced. There is such a thing, however, as the organic development of the liturgy under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guided the church in preserving this language long after it fell out of popular usage. Today, It serves much the same purpose as an iconostasis; it brings an other-worldliness to the sacred mysteries. It is this unique sense of the sacred which draws some of us to the Traditional Latin Mass.
If you have the manpower to pull it off without affecting other Masses, there is no problem.
Our parish has approx 11,000 members. The church seats 400. Our priest (we have only one) says 7 masses each weekend (English and Spanish), with standing room only outside in the streets and parking lots.
Do I want him to start a TLM so that a few dozen people can have the Mass said for their personal satisfaction and fulfillment. No.
I wasn’t drawn to the Latin Mass by any particular education program. I just saw it, and I was hooked. It really is that simple.
The TLM is certainly not doomed if people are simply allowed to follow their own preferences. You have to trust in the draw of our sacred traditions! Many people instantly recognize the value of the Traditional Mass and can see the work of the Holy Spirit in it. It is the value of the Traditional Mass itself which will bring it back to the heart of the church. It doesn’t need to be forced on anyone!