Tridentine Mass Part II

For everyone who has checked out my previous post about the Tridentine Mass, I have a new question. For those who prefer the Tridentine Mass, do you believe that it is the only valid mass? Would you attend a Novus Ordo mass if you could not attend a Tridentine Mass. I apologize if this topic has already been over discussed, but I would like to get some idea about this topic. Thanks.

Matt

[quote=marty1818]For everyone who has checked out my previous post about the Tridentine Mass, I have a new question. For those who prefer the Tridentine Mass, do you believe that it is the only valid mass?
[/quote]

No I do not.

[quote=marty1818] Would you attend a Novus Ordo mass if you could not attend a Tridentine Mass.
[/quote]

Yes and I do every Sunday. Luckily my pastor likes variety and follows the Rubrics, so we have Gregorian chant and incense a lot. But let me put it this way, if I moved to another city, I would probably without a doubt attend the Tridentine Indult every Sunday. Or if I was in a neighborhood with a Latin Rite church that celebrated the Pauline Missal and there was a Byzantine Catholic church in the same neighborhood, I would attend the Byzantine Catholic Church.

No the Tridentine Mass is not the only “valid” Mass. The Mass is the Mass, regardless of rite and Jesus is right there on the altar.

I’d hate to be in the position of one calling into question the validity of a Mass that has been celebrated now by four consecutive Popes. :nope:

I attend the Pauline Mass as well. And I’d attend it exclusively if the TLM was not available in my area. I certainly wouldn’t associate myself with schismatics and their fellow travelers.

No, I don’t believe the TLM is the only valid mass. I believe it is an objectively superior mass, but I certainly think the NO is valid. I attend a NO mass on Holy Days of Obligation (my TLM parish is too far for other than Sunday driving) and during the week (though I don’t attend daily).

If I had the option of attending the TLM exclusively I would do so - I have been in this fortunate position in the past - but I don’t now, so I adapt. It’s kind of a “neither here nor there” situation, but my husband is military so I’m used to it. :slight_smile:

The TLM is not the only valid Mass…the NO is just as valid…they are both beautiful when done reverently…Christ is present at both sacrafices…

Thanks for everyone’s responses. I’m glad to see everyone so far believes both masses are valid and that you just prefer one to the other. Thanks again.

matt

I attend the Indult TLM, However I attend the NO on weekdays

Would you attend a Novus Ordo mass if you could not attend a Tridentine Mass.

To hold such a position would, I believe, fit the second part of the definition of a schismatic as defined in the Code of Canon Law:

Can. 751 … Schism is the withdrawal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff OR [emphasis added] from communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

As further evidence of my opinion, I refer to the words of Bishop Fernando Rifan of Campos:

Now, to refuse continually and explicitly to participate in every and any Mass in the rite celebrated by the Pope and by all the bishops of the Church while judging this rite, in itself, incompatible with the Faith, or sinful, represents a formal refusal of communion with the Pope and with the Catholic episcopate.
See http://jloughnan.tripod.com/aledo.htm#campos

Sean,

I am curious, would Bishop Rifan’s remarks apply to Cardinal Mahoney as reported in an article yesterday?

*But Mahony has other issues that have caught the eye of Rome in the past few years, not the least of which were his attempts to block Los Angeles parishioners from taking part in traditional Latin masses in his diocese. At one point, Mahony claimed that only Catholics who attended such masses back in 1965 would be allowed to participate in the Tridentine Mass.

  • [left]It seems from time to time, some bishops refuse to allow indult TLM masses in their diocese. Does that constitute “…a formal refusal of communion with the Pope and with the Catholic episcopate.”

I personally go to an indult TLM mass and would go to a NO mass if the TLM was unavailable. I am honestly seeking your view that if a bishop forbids the TLM, is he also in schism since the Vatican has requested all bishops make it available?
[/left]

Cardinal Mahoney? Isn’t he the guy we have to thank for this?

Nuns holding urns of incense at the altar during the consecration of the new Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels in Los Angeles, California by Cardinal Mahoney on September 2, 2002.

[quote=Sean O L]To hold such a position would, I believe, fit the second part of the definition of a schismatic as defined in the Code of Canon Law:

As further evidence of my opinion, I refer to the words of Bishop Fernando Rifan of Campos:
[/quote]

I am new to this forum. However I have read this Message board for some time before actually joining.

Why,(Sean O L) do you see Schism in everything?
Is it because you were once affiliated with the SSPX?
Say what you will.(And you say plenty) they have A point (SSPX).
The Emperor has no clothes
Just look at that picture of the cathedral in Los Angeles
Paganism pure and simple.
And believe me that is just the tip of the iceberg in this Country(USA) Abuses are so ingrained in this country, that the faithful think that the abuses are the norm!
And please dont come back at me with your “the Vicar of Christ said this” “And the Supreme PontIff decreed that” I pray daily for our Holy Father BenedictXVI, However I worship only Christ,
Papalotry is A serious heresy, It seems to be running rampant i n the Church of today. Be careful of "Deifying " Popes living or dead.

Your venom that you direct at fellow posters seems to spring from your past affiliation with the SSPX. I say this because you are surely going to go into that same old song and dance, , about Schism and Sede vacantist. I am neither, nor have I ever been. Outside observation to you: I think you have the “Judas complex” You despise the SSPX because they give witness to what you once were…and could become again. Say what you will about them. They are firm in what they believe, Unlike yourself they havent “Turncoat” Your position reminds me of something A Priest once said, about Folks like you, “Neither God nor the Devil can trust you” Because they never know which side you are on! have a nice day!!

[quote=QUICUMQUE VULT]I say this because you are surely going to go into that same old song and dance, , about Schism and Sede vacantist.
[/quote]

No disrespect to you, QV, but I really wish you could take this to private messages, precisely because I too am soooooo tired of this guy’s same old song and dance (I had actually hoped this thread might make it without him jumping in with his routine…).

in our parish their is a couple of families who travel 100 hundred miles to get to a latin mass, when they cant travel they bless us with their presence, i hope all latin preference catholics are not like them, they think they are real catholics while we are the protestants and don’t realise it, ribbing the preist after mass about facing the wrong way etc,also babies, small children prior to no mass must have been angels not crying fidgeting etc, the look they give new parents is disgraceful, a little off topic, but rant over thanks, however if you think there is a lack of reverance you should raise this with the parish preist/bishop,

That is disgusting…I have never seen this picture before and to me, and I could be wrong, it is an abomination and an abuse at the highest level…so, so sad. Mahoney should have his faculties stripped from him.

[quote=Scotty PGH]Cardinal Mahoney? Isn’t he the guy we have to thank for this?

Nuns holding urns of incense at the altar during the consecration of the new Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels in Los Angeles, California by Cardinal Mahoney on September 2, 2002.
[/quote]

Well, look on the bright side: at least the nuns in that picture are wearing their habits :rolleyes: .

romancatholicblog.typepad.com/roman_catholic_blog/2005/05/where_have_all_.html

[quote=Scotty PGH]Cardinal Mahoney? Isn’t he the guy we have to thank for this?

Nuns holding urns of incense at the altar during the consecration of the new Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels in Los Angeles, California by Cardinal Mahoney on September 2, 2002.
[/quote]

:bigyikes: :mad: :banghead: :crying:

[quote=Scotty PGH]Well, look on the bright side: at least the nuns in that picture are wearing their habits :rolleyes: .

romancatholicblog.typepad.com/roman_catholic_blog/2005/05/where_have_all_.html
[/quote]

It’s sad, but I thought the same thing…

What’s with hat picture? Since it happened at Los Angeles it seems to have spread, including Orlando;

http://www.orlandolatinmass.com/diocesedorsey.jpg

Maybe the fact that the diocesean director of liturgy attends the Cardinal Mahoney extravaganza each year as a speaker is why it happened in Orlando? :whistle:

This picture is just as bad if not worse…there is a guy at the altar wearing inappropriate clothing with his shirt tail untucked, along with a lady wearing a deplorable, short flowered skirt.

[quote=EddieArent]What’s with hat picture? Since it happened at Los Angeles it seems to have spread, including Orlando;

http://www.orlandolatinmass.com/diocesedorsey.jpg

Maybe the fact that the diocesean director of liturgy attends the Cardinal Mahoney extravaganza each year as a speaker is why it happened in Orlando? :whistle:
[/quote]

Pope Leo XIII’s prayer to St. Michael:

O Glorious Archangel St. Michael, Prince of the heavenly host, be our defense in the terrible warfare which we carry on against principalities and Powers, against the rulers of this world of darkness, spirits of evil. Come to the aid of man, whom God created immortal, made in his own image and likeness, and redeemed at a great price from the tyranny of the devil.

Fight this day the battle of the Lord, together with the holy angels, as already thou hast fought the leader of the proud angels, Lucifer, and his apostate host, who were powerless to resist thee, nor was there place for them any longer in Heaven.

That cruel, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil or Satan, who seduces the whole world, was cast into the abyss with his angels. Behold, this primeval enemy and slayer of men has taken courage. Transformed into an angel of light, he wanders about with all the multitude of wicked spirits, invading the earth in order to blot out the name of God and of his Christ, to seize upon, slay and cast into eternal perdition souls destined for the crown of eternal glory. This wicked dragon pours out, as a most impure flood, the venom of his malice on men of depraved mind and corrupt heart, the spirit of lying, of impiety, of blasphemy, and the pestilent breath of impurity, and of every vice and iniquity.

These most crafty enemies have filled and inebriated with gall and bitterness the Church, the spouse of the immaculate Lamb, and have laid impious hands on her most sacred possessions. In the Holy Place itself, where has been set up the See of the most holy Peter and the Chair of Truth for the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety, with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck, the sheep may be scattered.

Arise then, O invincible Prince, bring help against the attacks of the lost spirits to the people of God, and give them the victory. They venerate thee as their protector and Patron; in thee holy Church glories as her defense against the malicious power of hell; to thee has God entrusted the souls of men to be established in heavenly beatitude. Oh, pray to the God of peace that He may put Satan under our feet, so far conquered that he may no longer be able to hold men in captivity and harm the Church. Offer our prayers in the sight of the Most High, so that they may quickly conciliate the mercies of the Lord; and beating down the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, do thou again make him captive in the abyss, that he may no longer seduce the nations. Amen

Behold the Cross of the Lord; be scattered ye hostile powers.

The Lion of the tribe of Judah has conquered, the root of David.

Let thy mercies be upon us, O Lord.

As we have hoped in thee.

O Lord, hear my prayer.

And let my cry come unto thee.

Let us pray.

O God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, we call upon thy holy name, and as suppliants we implore thy clemency, that by the intercession of Mary, ever Virgin immaculate and our Mother, and of the glorious Archangel St. Michael, thou wouldst deign to help us against Satan and all other unclean spirits, who wander about the world for the injury of the human race and the ruin of souls. Amen.

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