Tridentine or Indult

Are questions to the “ask an apoligist” forum not answered on Sunday?

In any case, I am wondering if anyone can tell me what the difference is between a latin tridentine mass and a latin indult mass. I went to my first latin mass today, an indult I believe, and it was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.

Indult, just means that it is allowed by the Bishop of your diocese and not schismatic as opposed to those who are disobedient to Rome.

[quote=kjvail]I am wondering if anyone can tell me what the difference is between a latin tridentine mass and a latin indult mass. I went to my first latin mass today, an indult I believe, and it was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.
[/quote]

The short answer is none. “Tridentine” refers to the form of the mass established by Pope St. Pius V after the Council of Trent. This mass underwent various minor changes over the centuries and the last Missal of that form is that of 1962. John Paul II has asked that the bishops provide an indult (permission) for those who are attached to this mass.

I also love this mass but it is not available in my archdiocese except at sedevacantist (those who don’t accept that John Paul II is a valid pope) churches so I won’t go there. :frowning: I have also participated in a Latin Mass of the 1972 missal but the huge number of options made it very difficult to follow in the Latin.

[quote=theMutant]The short answer is none. “Tridentine” refers to the form of the mass established by Pope St. Pius V after the Council of Trent. This mass underwent various minor changes over the centuries and the last Missal of that form is that of 1962. John Paul II has asked that the bishops provide an indult (permission) for those who are attached to this mass.

I also love this mass but it is not available in my archdiocese except at sedevacantist (those who don’t accept that John Paul II is a valid pope) churches so I won’t go there. :frowning: I have also participated in a Latin Mass of the 1972 missal but the huge number of options made it very difficult to follow in the Latin.
[/quote]

None is the right answer; if it’s an “indult” Mass it’s according to the 1962 Roman Missal. While it is often named for the Council Trent (Tridentine), the Council did not make major changes to the Latin Mass in effect prior to the Council. As I recall, it standardized the Mass, which could just as well be called Gregorian (after Pope St. Gregory the Great)…so this Mass is basically over a millenium and a half old.

Also, the Latin Mass website lists a weekly Latin Mass in the Archdiocese of Seattle:

St. Joseph Chapel/Josephinum Hotel
1902 Second Avenue
Seattle, WA 98101
(206) 448-8500
Sun. 9:30 a.m.

Maybe that would work for you.

Here’s a better description from one of the articles on a link I have been giving out. It is my understanding that all the listings are for Masses with the permission of the local Catholic Bishop (a Bishop who is loyal to the Pope and the Magisterium). If this is not true I’d like to know. Some of the linked articles may be questionable.

latinmass.org/faq.html

latinmass.org/directory.html

**No indult is needed.

See Quo Primum of Pope St. Pius V.**

sedevacantist.com/encycl…05/P5quopri.htm

Wrong.
Quo Primum is a disciplinary document of the Church, not an infallible teaching. It dealt with discipline not faith or morals and was not binding on the universal Church.

A Pope cannot bind a future Pope in matters of discipline. Doesn’t happen.

In fact the Mass was altered 40 years after QP, so much for its binding power.

The local bishop has the right to decide what rites can be done in his diocese, unless he has a direct order from the Church. So if your bishop doesn’t like the rite of Pope Pius V, its not said in his diocese.

Why would anybody go a sede site to check anything about the Church? They are hardly in a position to be accurate.

Wrong.

In your opinion.

Quo Primum was never abrogated.

Why would anybody go a sede site to check anything about the Church? They are hardly in a position to be accurate.

**Again, in your opinion. How do you know…have you been to the sede sites? :wink: **

A disciplinary document doesn’t have to be abrogated, it is simply replaced with another document.

Yes I have visited sede sites, sad to see so much wasted effort by former catholics.
Effort that could be used in the church, instead of against the Church.

.

Yes I have visited sede sites, sad to see so much wasted effort by former catholics.

You have no authority to declare them “former catholics”

I don’t have to, the Church does: its called heresy.

[quote=cmom]I don’t have to, the Church does: its called heresy.
[/quote]

That is exactly what they say about JP2 and the others like him!

[quote=Joe Omlor]That is exactly what they say about JP2 and the others like him!
[/quote]

Right, except the big difference is that they’re wrong.

[quote=Ham1]Right, except the big difference is that they’re wrong.
[/quote]

:banghead:

A disciplinary document doesn’t have to be abrogated, it is simply replaced with another document.

But…

traditionalmass.org/Did%20Paul%20VI%20Illegally.htm

Joe,

While I enjoyed the debate we had in the other thread, you are currently violating the rules of the forum. This thread is not about the sedevacantist position or even if an indult is needed. The specific question is about whether or not the term “Tridentine mass” is meant by the term “indult mass.” Your posts are changing the topic of this thread from a discussion among those who believe that John Paul II is a valid pope to a debate between us and the sedevacantist movement.

You are free to open a new thread to discuss the sedevacantist postion or to join in one of the others already in progress. Please don’t go around changing unrelated threads to your own debate.

The answer to the question is yes.

[quote=jordan]Also, the Latin Mass website lists a weekly Latin Mass in the Archdiocese of Seattle:

St. Joseph Chapel/Josephinum Hotel
1902 Second Avenue
Seattle, WA 98101
(206) 448-8500
Sun. 9:30 a.m.
[/quote]

Thanks for the information; I’ll check it out! :slight_smile:

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