Tried NFP..... now have 2 kids! Now what?


#1

Ok, so we went the NFP route and failed miserably not lasting past 2 months either time. That said, we were blessed with two beautiful little boys that I am so thankful for.

Problem is, NFP didn't work for us as my wife is quite irregular and very difficult to accurately time it. Can't afford to have more kids, but what I am I suppose to do, stop making love to my wife? That can't be good for our marriage.

Just looking for opinions. We are practicing Catholics so obviously ABC is a painful thought in whatever form, but I am torn because I struggle with the thought that being with my wife is potentially sinful if anything but NFP or abstinence is chosen.


#2

[quote="Superstar905, post:1, topic:221180"]
Ok, so we went the NFP route and failed miserably not lasting past 2 months either time. That said, we were blessed with two beautiful little boys that I am so thankful for.

Problem is, NFP didn't work for us as my wife is quite irregular and very difficult to accurately time it. Can't afford to have more kids, but what I am I suppose to do, stop making love to my wife? That can't be good for our marriage.

Just looking for opinions. We are practicing Catholics so obviously ABC is a painful thought in whatever form, but I am torn because I struggle with the thought that being with my wife is potentially sinful if anything but NFP or abstinence is chosen.

[/quote]

What method are you using? How did you learn it? You may want to stick with a more conservative approach and only use the post-ovulatory infertility. But I really have no idea what you're doing wrong; you need to go and see an instructor or a doctor and bring your charts with you to find that out.

Using NFP or abstaining completely is a struggle and you're right it is very bad for a marriage. That is why you do it for very serious reasons and only because you have no other choice.


#3

There are various methods of NFP, and some more than others are helpful for ladies with irregular cycles. Basically, the whole point is not to be caught by surprise because you constantly monitor fertility signs, whenever they come. If you're doing something that resembles calendar rhythm, it will not work for someone who is irregular, but modern methods are much more scientific and effective.

ABC will not keep you close to your wife; it will drive the two of you apart from each other and away from God. For your sake, I hope you put this idea aside right away.

There are people over on the Family Life board who are very knowledgeable about all kinds of NFP and where and how to learn them. I suggest you go over there with some practical questions, and you'll get some really good help.

Betsy


#4

[quote="baltobetsy, post:3, topic:221180"]
There are various methods of NFP, and some more than others are helpful for ladies with irregular cycles. Basically, the whole point is not to be caught by surprise because you constantly monitor fertility signs, whenever they come. If you're doing something that resembles calendar rhythm, it will not work for someone who is irregular, but modern methods are much more scientific and effective.

ABC will not keep you close to your wife; it will drive the two of you apart from each other and away from God. For your sake, I hope you put this idea aside right away.

There are people over on the Family Life board who are very knowledgeable about all kinds of NFP and where and how to learn them. I suggest you go over there with some practical questions, and you'll get some really good help.

Betsy

[/quote]

I'm probably just uninformed, but what are "NFP" and "ABC" methods?
:confused:


#5

[quote="BornAgain2010, post:4, topic:221180"]
I'm probably just uninformed, but what are "NFP" and "ABC" methods?
:confused:

[/quote]

NFP: Natural family planning. Calendar method, basal body temperature, that sort of stuff.

ABC: Artificial birth control. Condoms, pills, etc.


#6

Yup my wife is irregular also. We got our package from the Couple To Couple League, which is modern NFP and have been 100% successful in spacing our children for the past nine years. We have four children and all of them were planned using NFP and not a single complication. God is great and merciful. We use Rule C, which is post ovulation just to be 'safe'. However we are totally open to the will of God. Go to the Couple To Couple League to get more information.


#7

[quote="Superstar905, post:1, topic:221180"]
Ok, so we went the NFP route and failed miserably not lasting past 2 months either time. That said, we were blessed with two beautiful little boys that I am so thankful for.

Problem is, NFP didn't work for us as my wife is quite irregular and very difficult to accurately time it. Can't afford to have more kids, but what I am I suppose to do, stop making love to my wife? That can't be good for our marriage.

Just looking for opinions. We are practicing Catholics so obviously ABC is a painful thought in whatever form, but I am torn because I struggle with the thought that being with my wife is potentially sinful if anything but NFP or abstinence is chosen.

[/quote]

I have irregular cycles too. But any method of NFP relies (or should rely) on more than just calendar "timing" -- it should assess a woman's fertility indicators on any given day to determine whether she is likely fertile that day or not. So even with my irregular cycles, NFP has worked fine for us because it's a day-to-day determination, not a calendar-based determination. If your wife is having trouble with irregular mucus patterns, unstable basala body temps, long cycles, etc., then the Creighton Model of NFP might be advisable. It's a very standardized, medicalized model of NFP and many women with fertility problems or irregular cycles find it helpful.

Here's my advice: Find an in-person NFP class (in a method of your choosing) near you. Attend the class and begin charting again. Abstain for a cycle in order to get the charting straight (and yes, that will be difficult, but IMO it would be worth it). Discuss with the NFP teacher your prior difficulties, and see what they might recommend. It may be that you need to take a more conservative approach to interpreting your wife's charts. I don't know what exactly your difficulties were before, so I can't speak to how you would solve them -- but a good NFP teacher should be able to help you out.


#8

[quote="Superstar905, post:1, topic:221180"]
Problem is, NFP didn't work for us as my wife is quite irregular and very difficult to accurately time it. Can't afford to have more kids, but what I am I suppose to do, stop making love to my wife? That can't be good for our marriage.

[/quote]

Virtue is always good for us.

Regarding NFP, what method did you learn? What does your instructor say about your charts? Have you considered learning a different method that might work better for you?

Regarding "irregularity" that is not an impediment to using NFP.

[quote="Superstar905, post:1, topic:221180"]

Just looking for opinions. We are practicing Catholics so obviously ABC is a painful thought in whatever form, but I am torn because I struggle with the thought that being with my wife is potentially sinful if anything but NFP or abstinence is chosen.

[/quote]

You are the spiritual head of the household. Think about leading your wife into mortal sin, that is hopefully enough for you to throw water on the flame of tempation to sin through contraception.


#9

Ask yourself this question: What is the difference between NFP and other methods if the intention behind them is the same? Answer: They both would be a mortal sin if you believe in that sort of thing - the intention is the same.

NFP is not very reliable, that's why the church supports it. There are lots of methods available that are much more reliable. Artificial birth control is no more unnatural than taking an aspirin for a headache. It's a blessing in modern science.

God wants us to use common sense and be responsible. Bringing in more than what we can support is not wise for your kids or yourself. Stop listening to those men who never have to experience the challenges of raising kids. Guilt is a powerful motivator, but it's dangerous to let false guilt of others pressure you into things you don't want to do. Listen to your heart and you'll find the answer.


#10

[quote="Observer3, post:9, topic:221180"]
NFP is not very reliable, that's why the church supports it. There are lots of methods available that are much more reliable. Artificial birth control is no more unnatural than taking an aspirin for a headache. It's a blessing in modern science.

God wants us to use common sense and be responsible. Bringing in more than what we can support is not wise for your kids or yourself. Stop listening to those men who never have to experience the challenges of raising kids. Listen to your heart and you'll find the answer.

[/quote]

I'm sorry but you a wrong. Modern NFP is very effective. So effective that if used correctly there is virtually no chance of conception. My wife is irregular and we have been using NFP for years with zero 'accidental' conceptions. Your support of ABC is understandable in that you don't understand why the Church forbids their use. Read up on it it may change your view. By the way I've raised my children as much as my wife thank you and I understand fully the challenges of parenthood. The blessings too. Mabye if people stopped viewing children as baggage things would be different.


#11

[quote="Observer3, post:9, topic:221180"]

NFP is not very reliable, that's why the church supports it.

[/quote]

I'm guessing you haven't read any of the studies by secular scientists that have found NFP to be just as effective as the BCP? The rates of method failure are pretty much the same with either NFP or the BCP.

If you want links to actual studies, I can provide them -- but a quick Google search should turn up several for your perusal.


#12

[quote="Observer3, post:9, topic:221180"]
Ask yourself this question: What is the difference between NFP and other methods if the intention behind them is the same? Answer: They both would be a mortal sin if you believe in that sort of thing - the intention is the same.

[/quote]

Intention is only one of the three fonts of morality.

A good intention cannot employ bad means to achieve the end. I might have a good intention of feeding my family, but if I rob a store to get the money that is a bad means and is immoral. Intention alone can never be the basis of a moral decision.

Spacing children is a morally neutral, or good, intention. Contraception is an intrinsically evil means by which to achieve that end.

[quote="Observer3, post:9, topic:221180"]
NFP is not very reliable, that's why the church supports it. There are lots of methods available that are much more reliable. Artificial birth control is no more unnatural than taking an aspirin for a headache. It's a blessing in modern science.

[/quote]

"Reliability" has no bearing on morality.

Abstinence is not immoral. Observing the natural signs of our fertility is not immoral. Using contraception is immoral.

[quote="Observer3, post:9, topic:221180"]
God wants us to use common sense and be responsible. Bringing in more than what we can support is not wise for your kids or yourself. Stop listening to those men who never have to experience the challenges of raising kids. Guilt is a powerful motivator, but it's dangerous to let false guilt of others pressure you into things you don't want to do. Listen to your heart and you'll find the answer.

[/quote]

Please do not advise people on this forum to commit mortal sins. It is against forum rules and is highly irresponsible. If you do not adhere to Catholic moral teaching and do not want to give Catholic teaching on a Catholic moral theology board, then keep your opinion to yourself. The OP asked for advice on overcoming the temptation to sin.

If you can provide actual church teaching relevant to the topic, please do so. Your **opinion **is in no way related to the **reality **of God's law. We are called to conformo ourselves to God's law.


#13

[quote="Dysmas1, post:10, topic:221180"]
I'm sorry but you a wrong. Modern NFP is very effective. So effective that if used correctly there is virtually no chance of conception. My wife is irregular and we have been using NFP for years with zero 'accidental' conceptions. Your support of ABC is understandable in that you don't understand why the Church forbids their use. Read up on it it may change your view. By the way I've raised my children as much as my wife thank you and I understand fully the challenges of parenthood. The blessings too. Mabye if people stopped viewing children as baggage things would be different.

[/quote]

I used to be a Catholic and had many friends who were. I'd say that over 90% of them that used NFP had it fail within the first year. Of course most of my friends used ABC instead, and they didn't have the high failure rate.

Even the Pope has started to come around on condoms. There will be greater acceptance of ABC in the church in the next 10 years.

And lastly, I don't view children as "baggage." But too much of a good thing can be bad. Too many kids can put great stress on the wife and husband, and ultimately drive them apart from the heavy demands.


#14

[quote="Dysmas1, post:10, topic:221180"]
I'm sorry but you a wrong. Modern NFP is very effective. So effective that if used correctly there is virtually no chance of conception.

[/quote]

However we must always be careful that we do not compare NFP and contraception on the basis of effectivness.

It is not the effectiveness that makes it moral or immoral. Even if NFP were not highly effective, it would remain the only moral alternative to abstinence.

NFP is never an alternative to contraception, since that is intrinsically evil and can never be chosen. It is only an alternative to complete abstinence.


#15

[quote="Observer3, post:13, topic:221180"]
I used to be a Catholic and had many friends who were. I'd say that over 90% of them that used NFP had it fail within the first year. Of course most of my friends used ABC instead, and they didn't have the high failure rate.

[/quote]

I am very sorry you and so many of your friends have lost their way.

[quote="Observer3, post:13, topic:221180"]
Even the Pope has started to come around on condoms.

[/quote]

This is a false statement.

[quote="Observer3, post:13, topic:221180"]
There will be greater acceptance of ABC in the church in the next 10 years.

[/quote]

An intrinsically evil act that violates the Sixth Commandment cannot ever be accepted. This is a doctrine of the Church. It cannot change.

[quote="Observer3, post:13, topic:221180"]

And lastly, I don't view children as "baggage." But too much of a good thing can be bad. Too many kids can put great stress on the wife and husband, and ultimately drive them apart from the heavy demands.

[/quote]

And a couple who has a serious reason to avoid a pregnancy can choose complete or periodic abstinence. They cannot choose contraception.


#16

[quote="Observer3, post:13, topic:221180"]
Even the Pope has started to come around on condoms. There will be greater acceptance of ABC in the church in the next 10 years.

[/quote]

The Pope has not "come around" on condoms. The Church's viewpoint on them has not changed, and there will be no change on ABC in the Church in the next 10 years. Please read what the Pope "actually" said, as well as the Vatican's official response. Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread...


#17

[quote="Superstar905, post:1, topic:221180"]
Ok, so we went the NFP route and failed miserably not lasting past 2 months either time. That said, we were blessed with two beautiful little boys that I am so thankful for.

Problem is, NFP didn't work for us as my wife is quite irregular and very difficult to accurately time it. Can't afford to have more kids, but what I am I suppose to do, stop making love to my wife? That can't be good for our marriage.

Just looking for opinions. We are practicing Catholics so obviously ABC is a painful thought in whatever form, but I am torn because I struggle with the thought that being with my wife is potentially sinful if anything but NFP or abstinence is chosen.

[/quote]

Compendium of Catechism --issued Pope Benedict XVI

  1. When is it moral to regulate births?

2368-2369
2399

The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.

  1. What are immoral means of birth control?

2370-2372

Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.


So yes..birth control is not the way to go ..you are right mortal sin is not good.

NFP is very very good (when one has serious reasons to avoid)....but not every "kind" is equal...

This is where you all need to contact: popepaulvi.com/

They have persons who will train in their method...ALL over the place.

creightonmodel.com/ (same)

And it takes into account all the variations you will encounter...


#18

[quote="Observer3, post:13, topic:221180"]
I used to be a Catholic and had many friends who were. I'd say that over 90% of them that used NFP had it fail within the first year. Of course most of my friends used ABC instead, and they didn't have the high failure rate.

Even the Pope has started to come around on condoms. There will be greater acceptance of ABC in the church in the next 10 years.

And lastly, I don't view children as "baggage." But too much of a good thing can be bad. Too many kids can put great stress on the wife and husband, and ultimately drive them apart from the heavy demands.

[/quote]

For a person who claims they used to be Catholic you seem to have massive ignorance of official Church teachings on the subject. I'm guessing on other teachings as well which is, perhaps why you've fallen away. If your friends tried NFP and it failed then guess what...THEY WERE DOING IT WRONG. Or using an older method. Also if one is simply using NFP in PLACE of ABC then that is WRONG also. Look at what the Church ACTUALLY teaches before you spout off about what you THINK is taught.:eek:

1ke .....your absolutely correct.:thumbsup:

The Pope has NOT 'come around on condoms' again you show your ignorance of what the Holy Father said and accept being spoon fed by the media. This information is out there...for FREE...look it up. You may be surprised at the lies you believe because you were misinformed. I pray that the Lord opens your heart, head, and eyes to the truth before you damage yourself and others further. :(

Peace


#19

[quote="broconsul, post:5, topic:221180"]
NFP: Natural family planning. -]Calendar method/-], basal body temperature, that sort of stuff.

ABC: Artificial birth control. Condoms, pills, etc.

[/quote]

Forget calendars. They are long obsolete. Creighton, STM, etc are very reliable and work well with irregular cycles. Neither involves a calendar.

OP, sometimes you just need an adjustment of interpretation, as others have said. If you took classes from the Couple-to-Couple league, contact them or your teaching couple for help interpreting your charts.


#20

[quote="Observer3, post:9, topic:221180"]
Ask yourself this question: What is the difference between NFP and other methods if the intention behind them is the same? Answer: They both would be a mortal sin if you believe in that sort of thing - the intention is the same.

[/quote]

The intentions of NFP and ABC are not the same at all.

NFP selflessly declines the marital embrace for a time out of deference to the real concerns of the couple.

ABC selfishly seeks self-gratification while thwarting God's creative work.


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