Trinity can be demonstrated in deductive reasoning


#1

Father and Son

  1. There is one God who has a complete and perfect idea of himself otherwise He is ignorant of himself.
  2. God is real not imaginary, if God has a complete and perfect idea of himself it must include reality so that God’s complete and perfect idea of himself is in itself real, otherwise it would be incomplete and imperfect for omitting his reality.
  3. Therefore, in one God there are two realities, one reality is that of God and the other reality is that of His complete and perfect idea of himself.
    God who eternally generates his complete and perfect idea of himself is the Father since he is the origin.
    The complete and perfect idea of himself generated eternally from the mind of God since God always has idea of himself, is the Son.(jn 1:1)
    Both Father and Son are respectively real.

Holy Spirit.

  1. Love is to give all good.
  2. God is all good
  3. Therefore when God loves,God gives himself, he cannot give goodness less than himself, he must give all good who is himself, otherwise it is not love.
    .Since himself is God…hence God gives God.

God given by God in love is the Holy Spirit.

So, we have one God Father Son and the Holy Spirit.

Where am i not logical here? what number and why?


#2

[quote=memnoch_lover]Father and Son

  1. There is one God who has a complete and perfect idea of himself otherwise He is ignorant of himself.
  2. God is real not imaginary, if God has a complete and perfect idea of himself it must include reality so that God’s complete and perfect idea of himself is in itself real, otherwise it would be incomplete and imperfect for omitting his reality.
  3. Therefore, in one God there are two realities, one reality is that of God and the other reality is that of His complete and perfect idea of himself.
    God who eternally generates his complete and perfect idea of himself is the Father since he is the origin.
    The complete and perfect idea of himself generated eternally from the mind of God since God always has idea of himself, is the Son.(jn 1:1)
    Both Father and Son are respectively real.

Holy Spirit.

  1. Love is to give all good.
  2. God is all good
  3. Therefore when God loves,God gives himself, he cannot give goodness less than himself, he must give all good who is himself, otherwise it is not love.
    .Since himself is God…hence God gives God.

God given by God in love is the Holy Spirit.

So, we have one God Father Son and the Holy Spirit.

Where am i not logical here? what number and why?
[/quote]

In nomine Jesu I offer you peace,

Okay, my head just exploded.

Peace, Love and Blessings.


#3

[quote=chrisb]In nomine Jesu I offer you peace,

Okay, my head just exploded.

Peace, Love and Blessings.
[/quote]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


#4

:hmmm: :banghead: :rotfl: :clapping: :rotfl: :clapping: :rotfl: :bigyikes:

Sorry! Just playing with the smileys!!!


#5

There are innumerable ways to argue logically for the existence of God, it would take mountains on mountains of volumes to fill all the deductive and inductive, a priori and a posteriori proofs. Of course once the One God, omniscient and omnipotent idea is established, the Trinity follows quite naturally, in my opinion. You’ve done it nicely here, for example. Simple.
Try arguing logically against the existence of God, that’s a challenge. I haven’t seen it done well by anyone, down through the moderns to the ancients.


#6

i just ask whether i am logical.If i am not logical where? what number let me hear your reason…why it is not logical.


#7

#3 Where is the Word made flesh come in? --all you have is Jesus as an idea.


#8

to felicity…where the word made flesh here when jesus is just an idea,

answer,

i did not write the Son is just an idea but i wrote that the Son is the perfect and complete idea of God of himself. whats the difference?

perfect means nothing is omitted all are included.
God is real. and in Gods perfect idea of himself includes his very own substance or essence otherwise it is not perfect.
Therefore, Gods perfect idea of himself is exactly like God

in the fulness of time this perfect idea of God of himself who is exactly like God including the substance or essence was born of a woman .He was named jesus.

His divine essence was not confused with his human nature but was retained in its purity while the human nature is assumed as his own and also retained its human nature without confusion with the divine essence. Therefore in the person of jesus there is two nature that of the divine and human…hence jesus is truly God and truly Man.

in his humanity jesus expresses what he is divinely so that jesus human existence is truly the reflection of God., the very stamp of his nature, the perfect image of God , perfect icon of God.


#9

I don’t find fault with your logic–I just think it’s missing that important aspect–Word made Flesh Redeemer.


#10

…I was thinkin’ a little more on this…I suppose to establish the reality of “existence” only, you don’t have to get into the “Man” Jesus, but that too is part of the reality of God, right? and therefore part of the reality of the Trinity?


#11

peace memnoch lover

[quote=memnoch_lover]Father and Son

  1. There is one God who has a complete and perfect idea of himself otherwise He is ignorant of himself.

[/quote]

Peace brother Hamid, it seems strange to say but we could almost be sharing the same faith and I have felt this affinity with others on this forum also.

The nature of faith seems strange when we seem to be following the same path through diverse ways, but then it should not be a surprise when we admit to each other that we share the same God

It seems it is not enough to say we are all human and share this planet together, we need to belong to smaller groups we can acknowledge in some way. Maybe God has set us the greater challenge in life by allowing so many diverse faiths to exist, it is maybe to follow the path of the heart.

In our own religion we have this conflicting aim in what we are supposed to do, there is the relationship with others, and the need to follow truth. The following of truth seems to dictate that we try and convert others to our ways, which means our God.

I feel that the greater role I can achieve with my faith is to try and spread the message of the heart within the church that I attend. I often bring up how we need to build relationships with people of other faiths.

Often the time I feel a greater fellowship with others is when I am not in my own church, but sharing some kind of joint worship and fellowship with people of other faiths.

For me being a Catholic is not enough, I need more

Peace

Eric


#12

peace memnoch lover,

[quote=memnoch_lover]Father and Son

  1. There is one God who has a complete and perfect idea of himself otherwise He is ignorant of himself.

[/quote]

God is perfect in all that he is and all that he does, and this could possibly be summed up in the words of the greatest commandments.

God loves himself, with all his heart, all his soul all his mind and all his strength.

The first commandment.

God loves his neighbours as he loves himself.

Second commandment.

And the Trinity.

God loves Christ as he loves himself.

Christ loves the Father as he loves himself.

Happy Christmas and Peace
Eric


#13

memnoch

Sorry, I just don’t buy it. If the Trinity could be proved by deductive reasoning alone, the Jews before Christ would have probably made a stab at it. They did not. Even to this day they have not.

I think the Trinity was reserved for Jesus to reveal, both through his Person and through the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.


#14

[quote=Carl]memnoch

Sorry, I just don’t buy it. If the Trinity could be proved by deductive reasoning alone, the Jews before Christ would have probably made a stab at it. They did not. Even to this day they have not.

I think the Trinity was reserved for Jesus to reveal, both through his Person and through the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
[/quote]

okay if you dont buy my post but please in what point i am not logical? what number? and why?

remember faith and reason comes from God they therefore complement.However where reason ends mystery begins faith comes into play.


closed #15

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