Trinity within the Eucharist?


#1

With the knowledge that Jesus is one with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, how does that affect the Eucharist? For example, do we in some way receive God the Father or God the Holy Spirit when we receive the Eucharist since Jesus is one with them? My understanding is that the Sacrament is only Jesus, since the three Persons of the Trinity are distinct. Thoughts?


#2

The Eucharist is Christ specific, but the Father and Holy Spirit come into play.

A lot of great reading here …
therealpresence.org/eucharst/holycom/holycomm.htm


#3

I grew up in a culture where symbols are very important, I love my culture and the proverbial nature of the language, and they say pictures are worth a thousand words but in my culture you can double that price. In any case, I decided to use some of these symbols I picked up over the years to create a product that will tell the stories of these children. I had to create something that doesn’t need many words but will inspire change and motivate action. The beauty of the symbols speak for themselves, and being connected by a string, these shamballa bracelets were created to speak about the beauty only to be found when diversity communes in unity.


#4

the church teaches the Eucharist is the body blood soul and divinity of Jesus therefore you receive an outpouring of the Holy Spirit and communion with the Father.

There are numerous writings concerning the mystery of the Eucharist, but I think the one by Bl John Paul 2 is perhaps the most easily understood.


#5

From what I gather, since the Trinity cannot be separated in that they are all one God, you, in receiving Jesus Christ in the Eucharist (where you receive His body, blood, and soul) then receive the Father and Holy Spirit in some way or form. You'd have to find someone who is much more of a theologian to give a better explanation.


#6

[quote="jdoggin, post:1, topic:312179"]
With the knowledge that Jesus is one with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, how does that affect the Eucharist? For example, do we in some way receive God the Father or God the Holy Spirit when we receive the Eucharist since Jesus is one with them? My understanding is that the Sacrament is only Jesus, since the three Persons of the Trinity are distinct. Thoughts?

[/quote]

As there is only one God, you receive the body, blood, soul, divinity of Jesus, and the divinity of the Father and the Holy Spirit.


#7

[quote="thistle, post:6, topic:312179"]
As there is only one God, you receive the body, blood, soul, divinity of Jesus, and the divinity of the Father and the Holy Spirit.

[/quote]

In a sense, yes, but as neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit were enfleshed, it is not clear that we receive them in the same way that we receive the "Body of Christ." And of course the rubrics call for the Communion ritual to state "The Body of Christ," not "Receive the Trinity," "Receive the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit," or any such. I also recall that Jesus said "This is MY Body." I think the idea of Trinitarian presence within the Eucharist can be pushed too far, nor is such particularly helpful in terms of Eucharistic theology.


#8

I didn’t say body, blood and soul of the Father and the Holy Spirit. I said divinity. You cannot receive only one as the three persons are inseparable. The Trinity is present in the Eucharist even if you want to decide if they are somehow received differently. There is only one God.


#9

There are three Persons (Hypostases) in one Essence (Ousia). Personhood is individuality. Essence is common.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke are three persons that share one essence: Humanity.

Divinity is present in the Eucharist but the Persons of the Father and the Holy Spirit are not. If this were the case, one could argue that all of the Trinity became man since Christ is Divine.


#10

[quote="Zekariya, post:9, topic:312179"]
There are three Persons (Hypostases) in one Essence (Ousia). Personhood is individuality. Essence is common.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke are three persons that share one essence: Humanity.

Divinity is present in the Eucharist but the Persons of the Father and the Holy Spirit are not. If this were the case, one could argue that all of the Trinity became man since Christ is Divine.

[/quote]

Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Matthew Mark and Luke are not persons in the sense the Trinity is. You cannot compare the persons of the Godhead with physical persons.


#11

[quote="cjforJesus, post:10, topic:312179"]
Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

[/quote]

The Person of Christ is present in the Eucharist. The Person of Christ became man. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three Person in one in (divine) Essence.

The Son is a man. The Father is not a man. The Holy Spirit is not a man.
The Son is the Eucharist. The Father is not the Eucharist. The Holy Spirit is not the Eucharist.
The Son is God. The Father is God. The Holy Spirit is God.


#12

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/385230_125435020961172_175278271_n.jpg


#13

[quote="cjforJesus, post:10, topic:312179"]
Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Matthew Mark and Luke are not persons in the sense the Trinity is. You cannot compare the persons of the Godhead with physical persons.

[/quote]

St Basil the Great (Doctor of the Church), Letter XXXVIII

"Suppose then that two or more are set together, as, for instance, Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, and that an enquiry is made into the essence or substance of humanity; no one will give one definition of essence or substance in the case of Paul, a second in that of Silvanus, and a third in that of Timothy; but the same words which have been employed in setting forth the essence or substance of Paul will apply to the others also. Those who are described by the same definition of essence or substance are of the same essence or substance... Transfer, then, to the divine dogmas the same standard of difference which you recognise in the case both of essence and of hypostasis [ie person] in human affairs, and you will not go wrong. Whatever your thought suggests to you as to the mode of the existence of the Father, you will think also in the case of the Son, and in like manner too of the Holy Ghost."
Source: ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf208.ix.xxxix.html


#14

[quote="Zekariya, post:9, topic:312179"]
There are three Persons (Hypostases) in one Essence (Ousia). Personhood is individuality. Essence is common.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke are three persons that share one essence: Humanity.

.

[/quote]

A problem in the analogy/comparison arises when the verbiage of the Trinity dogma is applied to humanity.
Regarding Divinity, we say "There are 3 Persons in One God",
but, regarding Humanity, we could never say "There are 3 persons in one human".


#15

We say, that there are three persons in one [Divine] essence. St Basil the Great makes the point that Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy are three persons in one [human] essence.

St Basil the Great (Doctor of the Church), Letter XXXVIII

"Suppose then that two or more are set together, as, for instance, Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, and that an enquiry is made into the essence or substance of humanity; no one will give one definition of essence or substance in the case of Paul, a second in that of Silvanus, and a third in that of Timothy; but the same words which have been employed in setting forth the essence or substance of Paul will apply to the others also. Those who are described by the same definition of essence or substance are of the same essence or substance… Transfer, then, to the divine dogmas the same standard of difference which you recognise in the case both of essence and of hypostasis [ie person] in human affairs, and you will not go wrong. Whatever your thought suggests to you as to the mode of the existence of the Father, you will think also in the case of the Son, and in like manner too of the Holy Ghost."
Source: ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf208.ix.xxxix.html


#16

“God alone is substantially and essentially God. When I say “alone” I set forth the holy and uncreated essence and substance of God. For the word “alone” is used in the case of any individual and generally of human nature. In the case of an individual, as for instance of Paul, that he alone was caught into the third heaven and “heard unspeakable words which it is not lawful for a man to utter,” and of human nature, as when David says, “as for man his days are as grass,” not meaning any particular man, but human nature generally; for every man is short-lived and mortal. So we understand these words to be said of the nature, “who alone hath immortality” and “to God only wise,” and “none is good save one, that is God,” for here “one” means the same as alone. So also, “which alone spreadest out the heavens,” and again “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and Him only shalt thou serve.” “There is no God beside me.” In Scripture “one” and “only” are not predicated of God to mark distinction from the Son and the Holy Ghost, but to except the unreal gods falsely so called.” - St Basil the Great, Letter 8:3

Note: St Basil uses nature and essence interchangeably.

Humanity shares one essence: human.
The Trinity shares one essence: divine.
Jesus is of one essence with the Father (divine). Jesus is of one essence with mankind (human).


#17

[quote="jdoggin, post:1, topic:312179"]
With the knowledge that Jesus is one with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, how does that affect the Eucharist? For example, do we in some way receive God the Father or God the Holy Spirit when we receive the Eucharist since Jesus is one with them? My understanding is that the Sacrament is only Jesus, since the three Persons of the Trinity are distinct. Thoughts?

[/quote]

In the mystery of the Blessed Trinity we behold the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, - distinct as Divine Persons - existing in one Divine Substance.

In the mystery of the Incarnation we find one Divine Person (Our Lord Jesus, the Son of God) existing with two natures or substances - one human and one Divine.

In the sacrament of the Eucharist we receive the *human substance *of Christ (the Second Divine Person). We are not receiving the Divine Substance, but the human body and blood of Christ. However, because Christ is a Divine Person, so we are receiving Him not only in all His humanity but also in all His divinity, but this is not saying that we are receiving the Divine Substance. Needless to say, on account of the Consubstantial unity of Christ with the Father and the Son, the friendship of the Father and the Holy Spirit are communicated to us as well in the Holy Eucharist.


#18

“There are 3 Persons in One God”, is Theologically incorrect. There are three Persons in one essence (which is divinity). The same with, “There are 3 persons in one human”. There are three persons in one essence (which is humanity).

We partake of Christ who is fully human and fully God in the Eucharist. The Father is not the Eucharist and the Holy Spirit is not the Eucharist.

PS The analogy comes from St Basil the Great, Doctor of the Church as I’ve already posted.

"Suppose then that two or more are set together, as, for instance, Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, and that an enquiry is made into the essence or substance of humanity; no one will give one definition of essence or substance in the case of Paul, a second in that of Silvanus, and a third in that of Timothy; but the same words which have been employed in setting forth the essence or substance of Paul will apply to the others also. Those who are described by the same definition of essence or substance are of the same essence or substance… Transfer, then, to the divine dogmas the same standard of difference which you recognise in the case both of essence and of hypostasis [ie person] in human affairs, and you will not go wrong. Whatever your thought suggests to you as to the mode of the existence of the Father, you will think also in the case of the Son, and in like manner too of the Holy Ghost."
Source: ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf208.ix.xxxix.html


#19

Much has already been said but when we receive the Eucharist we receive the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ. Christ said to Phillip," If you have seen me you have seen the Father. The Father and I are one." The divinity of Christ cannot be divided. There is a distinct difference in relationship between the persons of the Trinity but the essence is one. Christ is consubstantial with the Father. So when we receive Christ in the Eucharist we are receiving the same Christ who became incarnate after being eternally begotten of the Father. So, in the Eucharist we receive Jesus Christ who is mystically united with the Father and the Holy Spirit. To say otherwise diminishes the divinity of Christ and denies the triune God expressed in the earliest of creeds. And ultimately expressed by Christ Himself while He proclaimed the Kingdom of God.


#20

The Trinity is three Persons in one essence. The Person of Christ is present in the Eucharist. Just as the Person of Christ died on the Cross. To say that all three Persons of the Trinity became man or became the Eucharist is the heresy of Unitarianism. I have provided a prominent Doctor of the Church to support my claim. I have yet to see any of you use the Church Fathers to support your claim.

I am finished.

In Christ,
Zekariya


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