Trinity?


#1

Which Christian denominations do NOT believe in the Trinity?

Malia


#2

Unitarians, for one. Mormons don’t believe in it either… they aren’t really even Christians, of course, but some of them claim to be.


#3

[quote=exoflare]Unitarians, for one. Mormons don’t believe in it either… they aren’t really even Christians, of course, but some of them claim to be.
[/quote]

thank you exoflare:)

any other mainstream denominations deny the Trinity?

I am asking because I told a Buddhist friend that some Christians deny the Trinity and she asked which ones… I wasn’t sure. Just one of those things I know, but don’t know, lol. So I figured I’d better find out.

Malia


#4

[quote=Feanaro’s Wife]Which Christian denominations do NOT believe in the Trinity?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), United Pentecostal Church (“Oneness Pentecostals”), and the Jehovah’s Witnesses are the main religious bodies that deny the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. The question, of course, is whether they can even be considered Christian.
[/quote]


#5

Well, that’s what makes protestantism so “great”… you can pretty much believe whatever you want. :rolleyes:

There are a few people in many protestant denominations who, even if it is not the generally accepted belief of that denomination, will say that Jesus is savior but somehow not divine. In this way, they are denying the trinity. Still, they aren’t going against their church’s dogma though, since the only “dogma” in protestantism is that the Catholic Church is wrong.


#6

Are they believing the Bible? Bible says, Father, Son and the Holy Sprit appeared two times together.
1.Baptism of Jesus.
2.Transfiguration.

In Christ,
selvaraj


#7

Mormons believe that Christ, Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost are three distinct beings; one in purpose but distinct and individual beings. But Mormons are clearly Christians.

From the official LDS church website:

*Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is Heavenly Father’s Only Begotten Son in the flesh. He is our Redeemer. Through Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father has provided a way for all people to become like Him and return to live with Him forever. We love Christ. We worship Christ. He is our example and our Savior.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge. Under the direction of our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ created the earth (John 1:10; Hebrews 1:2). When Jesus lived on the earth (approximately 2,000 years ago), He led a perfect life. He taught by word and example how people should live in love of God and others. Through His suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and by giving His life on the cross—that is, by performing the Atonement—Jesus Christ saves us from our sins (1 Peter 2:21) as we follow Him. Because of the Atonement, you can be forgiven of your sins when you sincerely repent (Book of Mormon, Mosiah 26:30).
Through His Resurrection, Jesus Christ saved us from death. Because He overcame death, we will all be given the gift of resurrection (Acts 24:15; 1 Corinthians 15:22). When life on this earth is over, Jesus Christ will be the final Judge (Acts 17:31; John 5:21–22; Acts 10:42). *

If that’s not being a Christian I don’t know what the word means.


#8

[quote=Casen]Mormons believe that Christ, Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost are three distinct beings; one in purpose but distinct and individual beings. But Mormons are clearly Christians.

From the official LDS church website:

*Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is Heavenly Father’s Only Begotten Son in the flesh. He is our Redeemer. Through Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father has provided a way for all people to become like Him and return to live with Him forever. We love Christ. We worship Christ. He is our example and our Savior. *

*Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge. Under the direction of our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ created the earth (John 1:10; Hebrews 1:2). When Jesus lived on the earth (approximately 2,000 years ago), He led a perfect life. He taught by word and example how people should live in love of God and others. Through His suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and by giving His life on the cross—that is, by performing the Atonement—Jesus Christ saves us from our sins (1 Peter 2:21) as we follow Him. Because of the Atonement, you can be forgiven of your sins when you sincerely repent (Book of Mormon, Mosiah 26:30). *
*Through His Resurrection, Jesus Christ saved us from death. Because He overcame death, we will all be given the gift of resurrection (Acts 24:15; 1 Corinthians 15:22). When life on this earth is over, Jesus Christ will be the final Judge (Acts 17:31; John 5:21–22; Acts 10:42). *

If that’s not being a Christian I don’t know what the word means.
[/quote]

Christians are not polytheistic. Although you allude to the Mormon belief in more than one God, Mormons in fact believe in (but do not worship) countless gods/Gods as a consequence of their doctrine of the eternal progression of the gods.


#9

[quote=Feanaro’s Wife]Which Christian denominations do NOT believe in the Trinity?

Malia
[/quote]

From the glossary of the Catechism:

CHRISTIAN: A name derived from that of Christ himself. The name refers to all those who have been anointed through the gift of the Holy Spirit in Baptism; hence, the followers of Christ, the members of the Christian Church. According to Acts 11:26 “it was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians” (1289).
__

Usually the Church will give various sects the benefit of the doubt regarding whether they intend to do what the Catholic Church does in baptism, thus making it valid and making the person a “Christian” in that sense.

If you don’t believe in the Trinity, it would seem that you’re excluding yourself from giving a valid baptism and bestowing the designation of “Christian”.

For example, the Catholic Church has determined that the Mormon Church assigns such a radically different meaning to the Persons of the Trinity in baptism, that their baptism is not considered valid.

more reading:
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=17288&highlight=valid+baptism

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=34791&highlight=valid+baptism


#10

I have no doubt that LDS members are “christians” in the sense that they are sincerely trying to be followers of Christ. But there are some very serious departures from foundational doctrine - including the doctrine of the Trinity. Therein lies the trouble, and the basis for some to claim that LDS members are not really “christians.”

A baptism, for the most part is valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church even if it’s performed by non-catholics outside of the Church, provided that it is “trinitarian” in nature. That is to say that one must be baptised "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One so baptised is said to be joined, although imperfectly, to the True - i.e. Catholic Church.

LDS members fall short on this ground because - from a Catholic perspective - LDS members have a fundamentally flawed understanding of the nature of the Trinity. Because they believe that Jesus Christ was less than the Father, finite in nature and “created” by the Heavenly Father as the first of His “spirit children” And because they believe that the Heavenly Father as once a human being much like us - thus also a finite and created being - a person baptised in the LDS church has not received a valid trinitarian baptism. So, in a sense cannot be recognized as having been initiated into the Church, even imperfectly.

Same is true for those baptised in the JWs and OPs.


#11

To believe in the Trinity is the defining doctrine of Christianity. All other doctrines stand or fall upon this one. No matter how many other similar beliefs they hold, or how Christian their behavior, if a group is not Trinitarian, they are not Christian, no matter what they call themselves.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

232 Christians are baptized “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” Before receiving the sacrament, they respond to a three-part question when asked to confess the Father, the Son and the Spirit: “I do.” “The faith of all Christians rests on the Trinity.”

**234 ** The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the “hierarchy of the truths of faith”. The whole history of salvation is identical with the history of the way and the means by which the one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, reveals himself to men “and reconciles and unites with himself those who turn away from sin”.

So, to answer your question: No, there are no Christian groups that deny the Trinity, since to do so would make them something other than Christian. Hope that helps.


#12

[quote=Fidelis]To believe in the Trinity is the defining doctrine of Christianity. All other doctrines stand or fall upon this one. No matter how many other similar beliefs they hold, or how Christian their behavior, if a group is not Trinitarian, they are not Christian, no matter what they call themselves.

So, to answer your question: No, there are no Christian groups that deny the Trinity, since to do so would make them something other than Christian. Hope that helps.
[/quote]

Thank you. That helped quite a bit.

Malia


#13

What Fidelis said…if you deny the Holy Trinity, you’re not a Christian.


#14

[quote=Fidelis]To believe in the Trinity is the defining doctrine of Christianity. All other doctrines stand or fall upon this one. No matter how many other similar beliefs they hold, or how Christian their behavior, if a group is not Trinitarian, they are not Christian, no matter what they call themselves.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

So, to answer your question: No, there are no Christian groups that deny the Trinity, since to do so would make them something other than Christian. Hope that helps.
[/quote]

LOL that is true! You still have to be careful though because a lot of them will call themselves Christians when they aren’t.


#15

[quote=Fidelis]To believe in the Trinity is the defining doctrine of Christianity. All other doctrines stand or fall upon this one. No matter how many other similar beliefs they hold, or how Christian their behavior, if a group is not Trinitarian, they are not Christian, no matter what they call themselves.

So, to answer your question: No, there are no Christian groups that deny the Trinity, since to do so would make them something other than Christian. Hope that helps.
[/quote]

:amen:


#16

Jehovah’s Witnesse, of course. www.watchtower.org
Unitarians. unitarian.org.uk/
Christadelphians. christadelphia.org/


#17

I’d also like to add that CGI (Church of God, International), denies the personage of the Holy Spirit, with a kind of . . . JW interpretation, I believe.

I assume that would include the United Church of God, The Living Church of God, Church of God Outreach Ministries and all those groups.

While the Trinity is indeed a central Christian doctrine, I was aware that a Christian was one who was properly baptised in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. While you can argue that the formula implies a Trinitarian belief, it doesn’t. At least, within CGI.

Yes, it’s messed up. I know.


#18

RE: What Fidelis said…if you deny the Holy Trinity, you’re not a Christian.

Actually, the concept of the Trinity is not attacked by LDS but rather our understanding is different, for we see the three beings of the Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Ghost as three distinct beings that are ONE in purpose and hence, ONE GOD.

From the Title Page of the Book of Mormon:

And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that JESUS is the CHRIST, the ETERNAL GOD
(Book of Mormon | Title Page)

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
(Book of Mormon | Preface 3 Witnesses:1)

And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end.
(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:21)

AND now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.

(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 15:1 - 5)

And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God.
28 Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God?
29 And he answered, No.

(Book of Mormon | Alma 11:27 - 29)

And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.
(Book of Mormon | Mormon 7:7)

There are lots more examples but I think you get the point. But as I said, we believe that they are three distinct beings:

Genesis 1:1 “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…

John 17:11 Jesus says his apostles are ONE with him just as HE is ONE with the FATHER.

John 20:17 What the heck does this mean is Jesus IS the same being as His Father??


#19

[quote=Subrosa]Jehovah’s Witnesse, of course. www.watchtower.org
Unitarians. unitarian.org.uk/
Christadelphians. christadelphia.org/
[/quote]

I read the stuff on Unitarians…so do they believe in the Trinity or not?:confused: I know of some people who have just left the Faith to become Unitarians and my arguement was that they don’t believe in the Trinity…don’t remember where I learned that…:confused:


#20

[quote=Annunciata]I read the stuff on Unitarians…so do they believe in the Trinity or not?:confused: I know of some people who have just left the Faith to become Unitarians and my arguement was that they don’t believe in the Trinity…don’t remember where I learned that…:confused:
[/quote]

I pulled this off the link on Unitarians-

“Unitarians hold Jesus in high regard. Generally speaking, they think of him:
[list]
*]As a teacher in the rabbinical and prophetic tradition of Judaism, whose central message was the call to love.
*]As a powerful example of integrity, courage and compassionate living.
*]As fully and unequivocally human.
*]As divine only in the sense that his life and work revealed - or came to symbolise - the divinity and high potential inherent in everyone.
[/list]Unitarians see Jesus as a major figure - for some, the central figure - in humanity’s spiritual journey. Most would, therefore, honour - but not worship - him accordingly.”

You read this and you were confused as to whether Unitarians believe in the Trinity? I can help you. Anyone who does not acknowledge Jesus Christ as fully human AND fully divine does not believe in the Trinity. Jesus is worthy of Worship exclusively because he is God. Just think about the Nicene Creed you say every Sunday:
We believe in Jesus Christ the ONLY son of God
ETERNALLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER
GOD FROM GOD
LIGHT FROM LIGHT
TRUE GOD FROM TRUE GOD
ONE IN BEING WITH THE FATHER
Through Him all things were made
For us men and our salvation HE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN
By the power of the holy Spirit he was born of the virgin Mary and HE BECAME MAN
For our sake He was crucified under Pontious Pilate
He suffered, died and was buried. On the 3rd day He rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures. HE ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN AND IS SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER. HE WILL COME AGAIN IN GLORY TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD AND HIS KINGDOM WILL HAVE NO END.

Look how politically correct the Unitarian “statement” is - its attempting to sound good to just about anyone who reads it. Now compare that to the unabashed proclomation by the Catholic Church regarding Christ as eternal God who became man for our sake and who sits at the right hand of the Father for all eternity. There is no comparison between these beliefs.

Phil


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