Turn deserts green to combat climate change and save Florida!


#1

A New Mexico biologist has an alternative theory on how to combat climate change that could be great news for everybody living in Florida, and New Orleand and the Netherlands and Bangladesh…

Carl Cantrell:
“So how is our problem of continental drying causing global warming? It all has to do with vegetation and sunlight. When sun light hits a plant, it causes a process which we call photosynthesis where the energy from the sun light creates oxygen for us to breathe, water for us to drink, and is stored as sugar for plants and animals to use. When the same sun light hits the soil, all of its energy turns into heat and is radiated back into the atmosphere… .”

“Therefore, the less vegetation you have on the planet, the more sunlight is being turned into heat and the warmer the planet becomes…”

"Just take a look at any satellite picture of the earth showing heat and you will see that our deserts are the warmest spots on the planet by far. More heat is being generated by just one of the top four or five deserts than by all of our cities combined… "

“The truth is that you can do more to decrease global warming by just reducing the average temperature for the Sahara Desert by one or two degrees than if we humans completely quit using fossil fuels and returned to the cave….”

“So, how would you start working to resolve this problem? Easy, cool the deserts and get some vegetation growing on them as soon as possible. But the method is much more complex than that. You have to use the prevailing trade winds in relation to the deserts to get the best results as quickly as possible and it will be extremely expensive….”

“Then we build desalination plants along the coast near these water sheds and pipe water to the tops or ridges of the water sheds…”

“We need to start working on this as soon as possible because, if the planet reaches a point to where it is warming faster than our technology can possibly stop or reverse this warming trend, then our planet is lost and all life will cease to exist on this planet within a relatively short period of time. We will need to start with the largest and hottest deserts because cooling them will have the greatest benefit in the least time (Global Warming II by biologist Carl Cantrell).”


#2

inhabitat.com/norway-and-jordan-sign-agreement-to-make-sahara-forest-project-oasis-a-reality/
Norway and Jordan Sign Agreement to Make Sahara Forest Project Oasis a Reality

Read more: Norway and Jordan Sign Agreement to Make Sahara Forest Project Oasis a Reality | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building


#3

sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090205142132.htm
Collapse Of Antarctic Ice Sheet Would Likely Put Washington, D.C. Largely Underwater

I have read that Florida is especially vulnerable do to the fact that so much of the rock is porous. Dikes and sea walls will not be able to hold back the ocean because the water would be able to seep in and around those walls!


#4

He has obviously never tried to grow plants out there.

The easiest solution if you want to green up America's western deserts would be to bulldoze the Rockies.


#5

[quote="DennisTate, post:1, topic:281124"]
When sun light hits a plant, it causes a process which we call photosynthesis where the energy from the sun light creates oxygen for us to breathe, water for us to drink, and is stored as sugar for plants and animals to use.

[/quote]

Photosynthesis produces water???

I thought photosynthesis used water. I thought that was why we water plants?

Who knew? :shrug:

-Tim-


#6

[quote="TimothyH, post:5, topic:281124"]
Photosynthesis produces water???

I thought photosynthesis used water. I thought that was why we water plants?

Who knew? :shrug:

-Tim-

[/quote]

How dare we question the words of Global Warming biologist Carl Cantrell.


#7

[quote="TimothyH, post:5, topic:281124"]
Photosynthesis produces water???

I thought photosynthesis used water. I thought that was why we water plants?

Who knew? :shrug:

-Tim-

[/quote]

Nevertheless, think about rain forests. They trap the moisture in the plants like moss and evergreen trees and ferns. Very green and cool. I'm no scientist, but I think there might be something to this. In a desert, the water evaporates very quickly.


#8

[quote="CHRISTINE77, post:7, topic:281124"]
Nevertheless, think about rain forests. They trap the moisture in the plants like moss and evergreen trees and ferns. Very green and cool.

[/quote]

Also loaded with insects that carry disease.

Wouldn't turning the desert green also intoduce insects there that otherwise would not survive? Has anyone done a study to see what effect that would have?

Has anyone considered what effect taking away the deserrt will have across the globe?

This is a fundemental problem I see with the many AGW advocates.
They all know exactly what to do, but none of them know what the real effect will be.

In carpentry, they measure twice and cut once to keep from wasting the wood.
This feels like exactly the opposite.


#9

[quote="vz71, post:8, topic:281124"]
Also loaded with insects that carry disease.

Wouldn't turning the desert green also intoduce insects there that otherwise would not survive? Has anyone done a study to see what effect that would have?

Has anyone considered what effect taking away the deserrt will have across the globe?

This is a fundemental problem I see with the many AGW advocates.
They all know exactly what to do, but none of them know what the real effect will be.

In carpentry, they measure twice and cut once to keep from wasting the wood.
This feels like exactly the opposite.

[/quote]

I agree that we don't know what would be the consequences of not having deserts. We would lose a lot of biodiversity by eliminating deserts. (Actually, I thought the oceans were what kept things cool on earth). Also, we don't really know that the earth is undergoing "global warming". Things warm up and things cool down.


#10

I'm having trouble understanding this ocean levels rising thing.

As I understand it, it is ice shelves that are melting. An ice shelf is, by definition, ice floating on top of the water, right? Try this at home, kids. Put a bunch of ice in a cup. Now fill the cup to the very rim so that the ice cubes stick up over the top. Place the cup on the counter and watch the ice melt. How much spills over the rim? None. Floating ice displaces exactly the same amount of water as liquid water.

Ocean levels could rise if ice were melting on the Antarctic continent. But last I heard, it was actually ACCUMULATING in some areas faster than it melted in others. The only net loss I'm aware of is in the floating ice shelves: zero change in ocean level.


#11

Well, maybe it will work, but I have my doubts.

In the area where I live, there is lots of grass, lots of forest, lots of springs, creeks and rivers, and almost four feet of rain annually.

Even so, I know better than to try to establish a bluegrass pasture, or brome or orchardgrass for that matter. Fescue, yes, Bluestem, yes. Indiangrass, yes, Bermuda, yes. And I know better than to plant birches or any kind of pine other than shortleaf pine and perhaps a white pine here and there. Yes to oaks, hickories, walnuts, wild cherry, baldcypress and other trees that can stand the climate.

Why? Because the rain is not evenly dispersed year-round and it gets very hot and dry in the summer despite all the water and greenery. We are on just about the same latitude as North Africa, and those deserts are supposed to bloom without our four feet of rain? Sure, you can put greenhouses anywhere, and you can desalinize water for those greenhouses if you use enough energy. But make those vast deserts green? I’ll believe it when I see it.


#12

[quote="manualman, post:10, topic:281124"]
I'm having trouble understanding this ocean levels rising thing.

As I understand it, it is ice shelves that are melting. An ice shelf is, by definition, ice floating on top of the water, right? Try this at home, kids. Put a bunch of ice in a cup. Now fill the cup to the very rim so that the ice cubes stick up over the top. Place the cup on the counter and watch the ice melt. How much spills over the rim? None. Floating ice displaces exactly the same amount of water as liquid water.

Ocean levels could rise if ice were melting on the Antarctic continent. But last I heard, it was actually ACCUMULATING in some areas faster than it melted in others. The only net loss I'm aware of is in the floating ice shelves: zero change in ocean level.

[/quote]

Antarctica and Greenland both have land based ice that could melt and cause the sea levels to rise. It would require at least an 8-10°C rise in temperature for Greenland's ice sheets to begin to melt, and much more for Antarctica. If they melted entirely it would require extreme increases in global temperature and much time, probably centuries, at the least. So even if we had the most extreme warming predicted by the most extreme global warmer it would take hundreds of years to see the flooding they predict, instead of it happening overnight as they say.

But, increases to the sea level are continual, and always have been. There are many places around the globe where we can find man made structures off the coast that were once above water.


#13

[quote="white_sheep, post:12, topic:281124"]

But, increases to the sea level are continual, and always have been. There are many places around the globe where we can find man made structures off the coast that were once above water.

[/quote]

You sure about that? As a civil engineer, I can tell you that all such structures that I've personally witnessed appear to be victims of settlement, erosion and beach sand migration, not global sea level increases. But I fully admit that my observations are my own. You?


#14

[quote="manualman, post:10, topic:281124"]
I'm having trouble understanding this ocean levels rising thing.

As I understand it, it is ice shelves that are melting. An ice shelf is, by definition, ice floating on top of the water, right? Try this at home, kids. Put a bunch of ice in a cup. Now fill the cup to the very rim so that the ice cubes stick up over the top. Place the cup on the counter and watch the ice melt. How much spills over the rim? None. Floating ice displaces exactly the same amount of water as liquid water.

Ocean levels could rise if ice were melting on the Antarctic continent. But last I heard, it was actually ACCUMULATING in some areas faster than it melted in others. The only net loss I'm aware of is in the floating ice shelves: zero change in ocean level.

[/quote]

As I understand it Antartic sea ice is increasing but land ice is decreasing. Then there is melting on greenland as well. Though as I understand it serious sea level rise probably wonlt be a concern for quite some time.


#15

[quote="Calliso, post:14, topic:281124"]
As I understand it Antartic sea ice is increasing but land ice is decreasing. Then there is melting on greenland as well. Though as I understand it serious sea level rise probably wonlt be a concern for quite some time.

[/quote]

Were the massive ice sheets to suddenly be removed from Greenland and Antartica, I wouldn't be as concerned for the sea level as I would be tectonic activity.


#16

[quote="white_sheep, post:4, topic:281124"]
He has obviously never tried to grow plants out there.

The easiest solution if you want to green up America's western deserts would be to bulldoze the Rockies.

[/quote]

Apparently a group wished to do something rather like the Sahara Forest Project to provide water for Las Vegas but the political left wing would not allow the project to go ahead!

I think there was some species of scorpion that would have been put at risk!!!!????

The presentation for this group is well worth watching!

saharaforestproject.com/


#17

[quote="TimothyH, post:5, topic:281124"]
Photosynthesis produces water???

I thought photosynthesis used water. I thought that was why we water plants?

Who knew? :shrug:

-Tim-

[/quote]

That is a good point!

I assume he is referring to the fact that areas with forests tend to have more lakes and streams than usually occur in the middle of sand dunes!


#18

[quote="CHRISTINE77, post:7, topic:281124"]
Nevertheless, think about rain forests. They trap the moisture in the plants like moss and evergreen trees and ferns. Very green and cool. I'm no scientist, but I think there might be something to this. In a desert, the water evaporates very quickly.

[/quote]

Thanks Christine77, If I had read your post I would not have bothered with my last response that was no where as thorough as yours!

My wife is an evangelical Christian who has introduced me to many people who impress me as being genuinely gifted. Some of these people are predicting that many of God's people will soon be given ideas for film projects that will have an astonishing impact on society.

I believe that local currency units such as CalgaryDollars.ca or The Ithaca Hour could be used to liven up the film. Imagine having a film cooperative in your city or town where the homeless people....become actors...playing the role of homeless people for a few hours each month at rather large projects that you get going!

This could go to a more grand scale with a state or provincial currency unit and projects could be set in the 1930's at historic villages. Apparently a large number of local currencies were going during the '30's but President Eisenhower put a stop to them! Harder to stop them if these currencies are actually serving as props within a film project!

Our artistic freedom might just be the last one to bite the dust!

facebook.com/notes/west-antarctic-ice-sheet/proposal-for-the-creation-of-a-quebec-provincial-currency-unit-to-save-coastal-c/373261199364486

Proposal for the creation of a Quebec provincial currency unit to save coastal communities from threat of rising ocean levels.

In my opinion it is going to cost trillions of dollars to do what needs to be done to protect towns like Truro, and Antigonish, Nova Scotia from the consequences of the cracking and sliding of a large part of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet and the land based Greenland Ice Pack into the ocean.

The province of Alberta attempted to create its own provincial currency unit during The Great Depression but enormous pressure was exerted to ensure that their experiment in monetary policy was unsuccessful.

"Not "Funny money"
Following the 1937 Social Credit backbenchers' revolt, the party attempted to implement its radical populist policies, such as the issuance of prosperity certificates to Alberta residents (dubbed "funny money" by detractors) in accordance with the theories of Silvio Gesell. Douglas, the originator of the Social Credit movement, did not like the idea of prosperity certificates which depreciated in value the longer they were held, and openly criticized Gesell's theories.[1]

Early in their term, the Socreds tried to pass two bills that would have placed the province's banks under government control. However, Lieutenant-Governor John C. Bowen refused to grant Royal Assent to the bills. The Supreme Court of Canada subsequently ruled the legislation unconstitutional because only the federal government can legislate on banking."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Social_Credit_Party

The province of Quebec seems to be in much better position to create its own provincial currency unit without facing the massive backlash from the financial community and federal government that Alberta experienced.

Dr. James Hansen has stated that the last time that global temperatures rose by three degrees ocean levels rose by 25 meters over four centuries. Canada and the world are NOT yet prepared for ocean rise of one meter every twenty years.

Nearly one hundred million people in Bangladesh alone will become climate change refugees in the event of merely a one meter rise in ocean levels!


#19

[quote="manualman, post:10, topic:281124"]
I'm having trouble understanding this ocean levels rising thing.

As I understand it, it is ice shelves that are melting. An ice shelf is, by definition, ice floating on top of the water, right? Try this at home, kids. Put a bunch of ice in a cup. Now fill the cup to the very rim so that the ice cubes stick up over the top. Place the cup on the counter and watch the ice melt. How much spills over the rim? None. Floating ice displaces exactly the same amount of water as liquid water.

Ocean levels could rise if ice were melting on the Antarctic continent. But last I heard, it was actually ACCUMULATING in some areas faster than it melted in others. The only net loss I'm aware of is in the floating ice shelves: zero change in ocean level.

[/quote]

Good point, as the Arctic Ice melts there should be virtually zero ocean level rise because...exactly as you said...it is ice floating on water!

The Greenland Ice Pack is different because it is land based.

The West Antarctic Ice Sheet is also different because the base of the WAIS is below sea level but the altitude of that shelf is so high that it is estimated that ocean levels could rise by 5 meters if it collapsed rapidly for some reason....perhaps an earth quake, tsunami or significant alteration in ocean currents.

For the record the danger months for the WAIS to melt would be January and February, the summer in the southern hemisphere....obviously we made it through the danger period for 2012!

Isaiah 30:26

Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.


#20

[quote="vz71, post:8, topic:281124"]
Also loaded with insects that carry disease.

Wouldn't turning the desert green also intoduce insects there that otherwise would not survive? Has anyone done a study to see what effect that would have?

Has anyone considered what effect taking away the deserrt will have across the globe?

This is a fundemental problem I see with the many AGW advocates.
They all know exactly what to do, but none of them know what the real effect will be.

In carpentry, they measure twice and cut once to keep from wasting the wood.
This feels like exactly the opposite.

[/quote]

Personally I am a Theist and I believe that Isaiah's source for information was even better than Dr. James Hansen!

drbo.org/chapter/27035.htm

Then shall the lame man leap as a hart, and the tongue of the dumb shall be free: for waters are broken out in the desert, and streams in the wilderness. [7] And that which was dry land, shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water.


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