Two Tabernacles and and Other Unrelated Things


#1

Is it appropriate to have a tabernacle in the sanctuary behind the alter and a second one in a separate chapel so that people have 24 7 access to the Blessed Sacrament? I know there isn't supposes to be two tabernacles in a Church, but the one in the chapel isn't part of the church. It's connected to it, but technically separate.

The second question is in regards to EMHCs. Is of appropriate for them to begin getting in position during the agnus die and be standing around the alter by the part where we say "Lord I am not worthy....?"

Lastly, is there any rule on the placement of the ambo in relation to the alter?

Thanks


#2

[quote="C794, post:1, topic:336444"]
I know there isn't supposes to be two tabernacles in a Church...

[/quote]

Can you cite this for me?

Thanks.


#3

[quote="C794, post:1, topic:336444"]
Is it appropriate to have a tabernacle in the sanctuary behind the alter and a second one in a separate chapel so that people have 24 7 access to the Blessed Sacrament? I know there isn't supposes to be two tabernacles in a Church, but the one in the chapel isn't part of the church. It's connected to it, but technically separate.

[/quote]

I wanted to add something. You can only enter the chapel after entering through the church's main entrance. When you enter the building, you can turn and go into the chapel or you can go straight and enter the sanctuary. We also use this chapel for confessions.

[quote="Boston_Sem, post:2, topic:336444"]
Can you cite this for me?

Thanks.

[/quote]

Here's something from the EWTN Q&A

ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=438483

It seems that it would be okay if the chapel was "truly separate".


#4

This is a separate but related question. In older churches their can be as many as six side altars, each with their own tabernacle. But surely not all of those six tabernacles cannot have the Blessed Sacrament in them can they?

How do you know which is which? :shrug:


#5

[quote="C794, post:1, topic:336444"]
Is it appropriate to have a tabernacle in the sanctuary behind the alter and a second one in a separate chapel so that people have 24 7 access to the Blessed Sacrament? I know there isn't supposes to be two tabernacles in a Church, but the one in the chapel isn't part of the church. It's connected to it, but technically separate.

The second question is in regards to EMHCs. Is of appropriate for them to begin getting in position during the agnus die and be standing around the alter by the part where we say "Lord I am not worthy....?"

Lastly, is there any rule on the placement of the ambo in relation to the alter?

Thanks

[/quote]

Yes it is allowed. This is up to the bishop.


#6

[quote="andrewstx, post:4, topic:336444"]
This is a separate but related question. In older churches their can be as many as six side altars, each with their own tabernacle. But surely not all of those six tabernacles cannot have the Blessed Sacrament in them can they?

How do you know which is which? :shrug:

[/quote]

Yes, in many older Latin churches side altars did/do have tabernacles, but they were/are rarely, if ever, used. This is true in older cathedrals and basilicas as well as parish churches. I have never seen or heard of any being used simultaneously.

Occasionally it might happen that the main tabernacle is out-of-service for one or another reason (a broken lock comes to mind, but there could be other reasons) in which case, one of the side tabernacles (usually one fairly near the main tabernacle) would be pressed into temporary service. The one normal liturgical use I can think of is on Holy Thursday when one of the side altars might be employed as the Altar of Repose.

It's easy to tell if a tabernacle is in use: it will have a Presence Lamp by it. :) If it's used as an Altar of Repose, it's normally surrounded by white bunting, flowers, and lit candles, etc, in addition to the Presence Lamp.


#7

In any particular Church, the Blessed Sacrament should be reserved in only one place. There can be multiple tabernacles, but only one should be used to reserve the Blessed Sacrament. If Mass takes place in more than one location within a complex of buildings, each can have its own place for reserving the Blessed Sacrament. So if the Blessed sacrament reserved in the chapel is actually consecrated at a Mass in the chapel, the church is complying with proper practice. If Mass is only said at the main altar, but the Blessed Sacrament is reserved in more than one place, this is an abuse - but probably not serious enough to involve the heavy squad from the Sacred Congregation.

It is standard practice for EMHCs to enter the sanctuary just before the Agnus Dei, although they should attend reverently and not stand around.

All the churches in my area have the ambo on the left and the tabernacle on the right, from the point of view of the congregation. There are rules concerning the ordering of churches, but I don't know if this is one of them.


#8

[quote="jimrob, post:7, topic:336444"]
In any particular Church, the Blessed Sacrament should be reserved in only one place. There can be multiple tabernacles, but only one should be used to reserve the Blessed Sacrament. If Mass takes place in more than one location within a complex of buildings, each can have its own place for reserving the Blessed Sacrament. So if the Blessed sacrament reserved in the chapel is actually consecrated at a Mass in the chapel, the church is complying with proper practice. If Mass is only said at the main altar, but the Blessed Sacrament is reserved in more than one place, this is an abuse - but probably not serious enough to involve the heavy squad from the Sacred Congregation.

It is standard practice for EMHCs to enter the sanctuary just before the Agnus Dei, although they should attend reverently and not stand around.

All the churches in my area have the ambo on the left and the tabernacle on the right, from the point of view of the congregation. There are rules concerning the ordering of churches, but I don't know if this is one of them.

[/quote]

Thanks for the reply. The Eucharist is not consecrated in the chapel. It's too small for Mass and is reserved for prayer and confession (this is soley because we are in a small building and there is no where else for confessions). The Eucharist is consecrated in the main sanctuary and brought to the tabernacle. Now that we added a second, I don't know if we will be bringing the Eucharist out to the tabernacle anymore. I do know that they intend on keeping consecrated hosts inside it. This is for devotional purposes.

About the ambo: that's how my parish used to have it. Now it has been moved so that it's behind the right edge of the alter. It is not directly behind it, but it is close.

One last question about EMHCs: are the ones with the chalice permitted to drink what's left after communion, or is doing that reserved for the priest?


#9

RS 119.
" The Priest, once he has returned to the altar after the distribution of Communion, standing at the altar or at the credence table, purifies the paten or ciborium over the chalice, then purifies the chalice in accordance with the prescriptions of the Missal and wipes the chalice with the purificator. Where a Deacon is present, he returns with the Priest to the altar and purifies the vessels. It is permissible, however, especially if there are several vessels to be purified, to leave them, covered as may be appropriate, on a corporal on the altar or on the credence table, and for them to be purified by the Priest or Deacon immediately after Mass once the people have been dismissed. Moreover a duly instituted acolyte assists the Priest or Deacon in purifying and arranging the sacred vessels either at the altar or the credence table. In the absence of a Deacon, a duly instituted acolyte carries the sacred vessels to the credence table and there purifies, wipes and arranges them in the usual way"

It's pretty clear from here that purification is the standard role of the priest. At the very least the priest should have a role in the purification.


#10

Thanks for the quote. So would it technically be an abuse if the EMHCs walked to the back of the sanctuary and drank out of the chalice they held and then purified it?


#11

I have noticed something that peaks my curiosity. One time after I attended Mass at the L.A. Cathedral, I went to pray in the Blessed Sacrament Chapel. A few minutes after I had entered, a nun came in with a ciboria filled with some consecrated hosts left over from Mass. She walked around the large, modern tabernacle and proceeded to open what looked like a smaller (normal) tabernacle behind it.

How would that fit into the OP's limit of tabernacle usage?


#12

[quote="C794, post:10, topic:336444"]
Thanks for the quote. So would it technically be an abuse if the EMHCs walked to the back of the sanctuary and drank out of the chalice they held and then purified it?

[/quote]

From what I've heard there was an indult that allowed this, but it has since expired.


#13

[quote="andrewstx, post:4, topic:336444"]
This is a separate but related question. In older churches their can be as many as six side altars, each with their own tabernacle. But surely not all of those six tabernacles cannot have the Blessed Sacrament in them can they?

How do you know which is which? :shrug:

[/quote]

**Before Vatican II, with the Trinidine mass, two or more priests were not allowed to concelebrate a mass (more than one priest saying the same mass together); but more than one priest could say separate masses, at the same time on different altars in the same church. In fact at the seminary, in my diocese there were several altars (about 15 - 20) on a balcony above the naïve, so that all of the priests at the seminary could say mass at the same time. Otherwise each priest, that wanted to offer mass, would have to have a mass - one after the other. They would be up all day & night saying masses. Each altar had its' own tabernacle. **


Since most parishes had at least 2 - 3 or more priests most churches had a side altar on each side of the sanctuary, just for this purpose.


#14

Thanks for the replies. Does anyone have any more thoughts on the two tabernacles in my situation?


#15

Hi!

In regards to EMHC's...at least at my parish...they enter the sanctuary once the celebrant has received the Blood of Christ. To me, that makes more sense then entering at the time of the Agnus Dei. :thumbsup:


#16

[quote="DJJG, post:13, topic:336444"]
**Before Vatican II, with the Trinidine mass, two or more priests were not allowed to concelebrate a mass (more than one priest saying the same mass together); but more than one priest could say separate masses, at the same time on different altars in the same church. In fact at the seminary, in my diocese there were several altars (about 15 - 20) on a balcony above the naïve, so that all of the priests at the seminary could say mass at the same time. Otherwise each priest, that wanted to offer mass, would have to have a mass - one after the other. They would be up all day & night saying masses. Each altar had its' own tabernacle. **


Since most parishes had at least 2 - 3 or more priests most churches had a side altar on each side of the sanctuary, just for this purpose.

[/quote]

This is what you mean, right?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/janeway529/Screenies/RCC/TLMfactory-styleprivatemasses.jpg


#17

In my parish the main tabernacle is behind the alter and the second one we have have a silver tabernacle in are lady chapel what is only used now on Holy Thursday as the alter of repose as priest are allowed to concentrate the mass


#18

[quote="Aran_Houlihan, post:17, topic:336444"]
In my parish the main tabernacle is behind the alter and the second one we have have a silver tabernacle in are lady chapel what is only used now on Holy Thursday as the alter of repose as priest are allowed to concentrate the mass

[/quote]

So when we talk about chapels are we talking about a building that contains an alter and is big enough for Mass (with a small congregation) or one that only has room for ten or so people to go into and pray? Because mine is definitely the latter.

Also, how separate should the chapel be from the church? If all that's connecting them is a hallway (you cannot enter the chapel from outside of this hallway), should they be classified as one building?


#19

[quote="C794, post:18, topic:336444"]
So when we talk about chapels are we talking about a building that contains an alter and is big enough for Mass (with a small congregation) or one that only has room for ten or so people to go into and pray? Because mine is definitely the latter.

Also, how separate should the chapel be from the church? If all that's connecting them is a hallway (you cannot enter the chapel from outside of this hallway), should they be classified as one building?

[/quote]

I don't think there's a clear up definition for a chapel. In Florence, the cathedral has the main length and in the side domes has 3 other areas that people would call cappelle (chapels) where mass but there's minimal separation between the main area and "chapels" other than a low wall (prob. 4ft) around the main sanctuary.


#20

[quote="C794, post:18, topic:336444"]
So when we talk about chapels are we talking about a building that contains an alter and is big enough for Mass (with a small congregation) or one that only has room for ten or so people to go into and pray? Because mine is definitely the latter.

Also, how separate should the chapel be from the church? If all that's connecting them is a hallway (you cannot enter the chapel from outside of this hallway), should they be classified as one building?

[/quote]

Sorry I didn't make it clear enough. what meant was a side chapel in a church. the sanctuary of are lady chapel could only hold a priest and four alter sever the congregation would be in the church nave on the left had side


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