U.S. Gov't (Obama, basically) closes embassy at Vatican to "save money"


#1

Basically, the title is the nutshell of recent developments.

I find this outrageous, that the government would move the Vatican embassy just to save money, while we keep every single embassy in the Middle East open. I just find this latest move by the government (no doubt by Obama’s wishes at that) to further the anti-Catholic sentiments highly aggravating and irritating.

What do you guys think?

Here is the full article, from CNN, if you are interested in reading more:
religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/27/vatican-knocks-down-controversy-over-u-s-embassy-move/?hpt=hp_t2


#2

Every embassy in the middle east is staying open because we are engaged in military action, because US citizens in those countries often need the help of their government, because of diplomacy, covert ops, and tons of other things.

Embassies are not vacation resorts. We are not calling Vatican City unpleasant, or saying that we don’t want to work with them. It’s just that US-Vatican City relations are pretty good, and that we don’t need to sink that kind of time, money, and personnel into keeping an embassy there.


#3

Embassies are there for foreign relations. Vatican City doesn’t really do a whole lot of that, as opposed to say, the US and Germany or the US and Saudi Arabia.


#4

There has never been an embacy to Vatican City. The Holy See and Vatican City are two separate entities. The Holy See is an etranational body and represents the worlds 1.2 billion Catholics in the world. In other words the Holy See represents the same number of people as say the embassy to India. The Holy See is an observing member of the UN and has signed numerous treaties. As far as international law is concerned the Holy See is just as much a state as Israel, Germany or Saudi Arabia.

The only place I’d agree with you is that the US does not want much to do with foreign relations with the Holy See since the current administration stands in opposition to the vast majority of what the Holy See represents.


#5

I thought the article said the embassy was not being closed, but moved, for security reasons, that there would be no cuts.

The article ended,** In attempt to quell any controversy, earlier on Wednesday, the U.S. Embassy to the Holy See posted on its Facebook page that reports that claim the “embassy to the Holy See is closing, that our Ambassador’s position is being cut, and/or that his residence is moving … are untrue.”**


#6

I remember from my history lessons that the Holy See occasionally had bad relationship with Italy - see for example during WW-II when Italy’s leader was Mussolini, Hitler’s ally. Also see the persecution of the Church in Garibaldi’s Italy in the 19th century.

Now, would it have been wise for the USA, to have its embassy to Fascist Italy, and its embassy to the fascist Italy’s ideological enemy the Vatican, share one compound and one building?

We should never forget that Italy and the Vatican are two separate countries, and there’s no guarantee that they will have good relationships to each other in the future.


#7

It sounds like the decision was made for security concerns. I doubt that saving $1.4M per year for a diplomatic mission is that important (though perhaps it should be).


#8

Wrong. The Holy See represents 1.2 billion Catholics scattered throughout the world, including Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq and so on.

The problem is, Obama doesn’t want to hear what the Holy See has to say on behalf of Catholics, and even other Christians, of the Middle East.

The Holy See is also an important protector of Orthodox Christians - see our Popes protecting Patriarch of Constantinople Bartholomew in Turkey.

Pope Francis did a major service to all Christians in Syria this September when he condemned our plans to bomb Syria. There’s an Eastern Orthodox population, as well as Oriental Orthodox in Syria, and they outnumber Catholics. However, Pope Francis has a higher profile than the EO and OO Patriarchs, thus he could more effectively speak out on behalf of all Syrian Christians, including the EO, OO, and Catholics.

Maybe this is exactly the problem. The Holy See stopped Obama’s murderous plans to bomb Syria, and now Obama is trying to marginalize the Holy See in revenge.


#9

#10

Anyone else think Obama may have been actually advised to do this as a diplomatic measure after that whole disgraceful “Phone tapping the Pope because we need to know absolutely every bit of gossip in the whole entire world” incident?

Pulling American assets out of the Vatican, and appearing to withdraw a little I suspect may have been advice given to him, rather than any specific “anti-catholic” thing.


#11

While I am sure that the move will same some money, and there are other nations that need alot of attention; I am certain that this was an easy decision for Obama to make. He’s not Catholic, has no respect for the Church, and the ‘Catholic lobby’ has no fangs whatsoever.

I’ve said this MANY times and it bears repeating again: Catholics in the United States although massive in number, do not wield great power. Why? Because we haven’t mobilized the way our Jewish and Muslim counterparts have. We as a people/religion continue to let a host of other entities walk all over us and we continue to do nothing.

‘Catholic’ polititians have no desire to BE Catholic, or to upset their -]pagan/-] non-Catholic constituants. So, basically… until faithful Catholics stand up en masse, we will continue to not be taken seriously by the government of the United States.


#12

Well I don’t understand what the security concerns would be or whether that would be so great. I mean pull out of Vatican City to consolidate with the other Italy embassy for “security” reasons. If security is the concern why not pull out of the Middle East, or at least in many places there where we are doing more harm than good and where it’s more dangerous for us to have an embassy there? Well I don’t know for sure, but that’s just what I think right now.

Could be, but I find this annoying because it’s been unprecedented in the past. To my knowledge there has been no American president in the past who has done this; no previous president has either spied on the Pope or tried to pull out of Vatican City with the pretense of saving money. Not sure though, perhaps that could be part of it though…

Well even in the past most other presidents, regardless of politics, had at least a bit more respect for Catholics than Obama seems to have had. I’m sure you’ve heard about the ObamaCare HHS mandate and how the Supreme Court recently decided to take another look at a case about religious liberty and its relation to this individual mandate that targets Catholic and possibly other religious institutions. So to me, but maybe I’m wrong, it seems like Obama goes beyond the usual “hold no respect for Catholics” sentiment and at least tried a little to openly go against them.

But yes I agree with you on Catholics not really standing up. What gets to me the most is that whenever there is a bombing or terrorist attack by a Muslim, the whole media is riled up into writing articles on how good Muslims are but just let a Catholic priest make a mistake and then the whole media is, in full force, all over his back in endless attacks.


#13

this might be offtopic, but i wanted to say that I admire your will, courage and love for God, living where you live. i’ve read some of you have to drive 30 mins to get to a Church, and people seems to disciminate you.

just wanted to say that, and remain strong.


#14

There is probably something else going on other than what we are being told. I have no idea what it may be, but it sounds like the US trying to distance itself from the vatican. I think we all know the US Govt does not care about spending money, that is crystal clear in this administration!!, so I doubt money comes into the decision at all, but I guess it makes a good cover story for the media to use in place of the true reason.

Watching the news today, you have to learn how to read between the lines so to speak LOL I sometimes wish I had grown up in the time when the media could be trusted to report the news, whatever it may be and did not have corporate owners deciding what news the public should hear…in fact, that is scary to think about! They could keep alot of major things totally secret, kinda like how christians in other countries are currently being tortured and killed for their beliefs …Gee, I wonder why they dont want this to be news in the US!!!


#15

From where I am looking at it, I don’t see the problem, sorry.

Oh, Destiny, please note what BlueEyedLady says in the quote below. Embassies are not just for maintaining relations with the country in which they are situated, they are also to provide support and various other services for citizens who are living or visiting those host countries. I am sure the American citizens who find themselves in Middle Eastern countries for any reason are glad there is an Embassy in those countries. I know I’m extremely grateful that my country has an Embassy here; I have registered with them and in case of any sort of emergency they know I’m here.

And one could add that there is already an Embassy in Rome where US citizens can go just as easily for the services they need from their Embassy.

Consolidating the two Embassies seems to make sense from both a security and economic point of view.


#16

i believe they are closing the current location of the embassy. I am not sure if we are being told the truth as to why, because as another poster already pointed out, the Obama administration has not really been cutting corners economically the past 6 years and I am not sure there are any real security concerns at the location they are closing.


#17

Supposedly, the current location was near a large junction box that made produced too much feedback when trying to wiretap.


#18

Well, that would be a problem.:smiley: The US mission to the Holy See is very important even as I recognize that it is unique. What I know about Government is that if you do not have your own building. You are not very important. So there could be a message, however petty in all of this. After all, how many divisions does the pope have?:shrug:

ATB


#19

I think you need a news link, not a blog for this thread to continue. Here’s one: cathnews.co.nz/2013/11/29/vatican-downplays-controversy-us-embassy-move/


#20

Maybe the administration is getting its information from Dan Brown novels and is concerned about a fictional anti-matter device and albino monks.:wink:


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