U.S. judge jails Muslim woman over head scarf

What does Warren Jeffs have to do with anything?

Lujack;

What does Warren Jeffs have to do with anything?

Because if court policy is to remove a headscarf, and that violates the Free Exercise Clause , then arreting Warren Jeffs was a violation of the Free Exercise Clause, was it not?

But they say, “Oh, these are different situations”, " what Jeffs did was bad but a headscarf is a no big deal"

If it was no big deal, then she should have removed it.

Um…

What Jeffs did was criminal, against the law. Wearing a headscarf in court is against standard court procedure, not against the law.

Also, it was a big deal to her, just as a nun’s habit would be. It was not a big deal to the court, as it would take little to no effort to make arrangements for her.

Lujack;4566738]Um…

What Jeffs did was criminal, against the law. Wearing a headscarf in court is against standard court procedure, not against the law.

Oh, now the law matters? I thought it was the first amendment?

Also, it was a big deal to her, just as a nun’s habit would be. It was not a big deal to the court, as it would take little to no effort to make arrangements for her.

Wouldn;t that show a religious preference by the government? We can’t have that now.

The Bailiff represents the judge…is an agent of the judge…remember, it’s CONTEMPT OF COURT, not contempt of Judge.

I just saw a nun in full habit at Walmart’s a few weeks ago. (We were both :)shopping for cat food). So I could see this happening too.
I also regularly shop at 2 stores run by Conservative Mennonites, & they always wear their kapps.
In either case, I bet they would not agree to such a thing.

Not all nuns are caucasian…so would this nun feel upset at removing her veil?

Someone questioned this part of the post: I take it to mean, that most usually, the Muslims that we see are from the Middle East with Arabic-like features. So, suppose a judge decided that a nun looked Middle Eastern & equated that wish “terrorist type”.
It could happen. Covering the hair is a very ancient custom that is still practiced by many who are deeply religious.
On the other hand: The woman :eek: swearing at the bailiff makes it kind of hard for me to sustain any sympathy for her, personally. How “deeply religious” is that? Really? (I speak as:o one who has said:eek: all manner of things when I hit my thumb with a hammer:o).

Zooey;

Someone questioned this part of the post: I take it to mean, that most usually, the Muslims that we see are from the Middle East with Arabic-like features. So, suppose a judge decided that a nun looked Middle Eastern & equated that wish “terrorist type”.
It could happen.

That’s right, it could happen. And let us not forget the little fact that, like it or not, we are war with Radical Muslims. That they are suicide bombing all over the world. That they flew planes into buildins on our own soil. If the this didn’t happen, and she enveiled a T-N-T belt, who then would be blamed for the attack? Yeah, you guessed it, the arresting cop, the judge, and the baliff.

So to me, one person “offended”, (not like they had* no *idea as to why they were asked), is better than 200 slaughtered.

This is an example of racial profiling. Do you think stupid people took down the World Trade Center? And I guess you forgot the case of the pregnant, Irish woman who was put on a plane with a bomb by her middle-Eastern boyfriend. She should get a pass?

The US is not at war with a religion, by the way. There are a billion Muslims on this planet. If 1% were terrorists this world would be in flames.

In a word, no. Judges have been forced to allow Jews to wear their yamulkas and Muslims to wear kufis. There are two concerns: Safety and respect for court. Both can be assured with people keeping on their observant garb. The US government is required to use the *least restrictive methods *as to affecting religious practices.

That makes no sense. If she had been wearing a TNT belt, removing her headscarf wouldn’t have uncovered it.

So to me, one person “offended”, (not like they had* no*idea as to why they were asked), is better than 200 slaughtered.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that Lisa Valentine was wearing a suicide belt. Yes, there are Muslim terrorists, but only a very small percentage of Muslims are terrorists. If you are going to continue in this vein, I am going to have to ask for your evidence that Valentine is a would-be terrorist.

She wasn’t even coming in as part of a criminal case; she was accompanying her nephew to a traffic citation. That doesn’t sound like a very likely terrorist to me.

Of course, I’m sure you’re all familiar with the many traffic courts blown up by suicide bombers.

In a way, I can see how they could do this. I mean, what if she was hiding a small bomb under her head scarf and intended to blow herself up? But then again, I am saddened by this as well because it shows a disrespect for human rights.

What…the…****

Surely you can’t be serious?

There was a shoe bomber on a plane once, should the jury be required to enter the courtroom barefoot.

If its small enough to fit in a headscarf unnoticed then it could fit in a pocket unnoticed: No pockets for jurors.

Well they could just as easily hide it up a sleeve? No sleeves.

Up their trouser/pants leg? No trousers or pants.

Hell even if they were naked they still have one or two nooks to hide a bomb that small.

That is really reaching out for a reason there.

Beau Ouiville;

This is an example of racial profiling. Do you think stupid people took down the World Trade Center? And I guess you forgot the case of the pregnant, Irish woman who was put on a plane with a bomb by her middle-Eastern boyfriend. She should get a pass?

Forgot that story? I never heard it.

The US is not at war with a religion, by the way. There are a billion Muslims on this planet. If 1% were terrorists this world would be in flames.

Show me where I ever said that. I said “Radical Islam”

In a word, no. Judges have been forced to allow Jews to wear their yamulkas and Muslims to wear kufis. There are two concerns: Safety and respect for court. Both can be assured with people keeping on their observant garb. The US government is required to use the *least restrictive methods *as to affecting religious practices.

But this judge enforces that law equally. NOBODY is allowed in with anything on their head. If she can wear her headscarf, then I want to be able to wear my hat! Anything otherwise, is religious preference over everyone else.

And they aren’t the only ones who wear headscarves.

But this judge enforces that law equally. NOBODY is allowed in with anything on their head. If she can wear her headscarf, then I want to be able to wear my hat! Anything otherwise, is religious preference over everyone else.

You don’t have a religious reason to wear a hat. What if this woman was a nun? Would you support forcing them to not wear the habit?

[Dale_M;

That makes no sense. If she had been wearing a TNT belt, removing her headscarf wouldn’t have uncovered it.

Not the point. If a radical Muslim would have done something like that here, the judge or the court would take partial blame for allowing it to happen. People would die because we didn’t want to offend anyone. If this woman cannot understand why she would even be asked this, knowing full well what is happening in the world, then forget her. She sees this as nothing but pure discrimination, nothing more.

[quote]There is absolutely no reason to believe that Lisa Valentine was wearing a suicide belt. Yes, there are Muslim terrorists, but only a very small percentage of Muslims are terrorists.

Yes, I know that. And I have NEVER been the one to say that blanket statement that Muslims are terrorists. I always include Radical Muslims. But unfortunately, we don’t know who they are until we read about them in the paper.

Lujack;

She wasn’t even coming in as part of a criminal case; she was accompanying her nephew to a traffic citation. That doesn’t sound like a very likely terrorist to me.

Never said or implied that man. Never have, never will. We are all treated like that when we go to the airport. Even Muslims, as far as I know, have to take off their shoes too.

Of course, I’m sure you’re all familiar with the many traffic courts blown up by suicide bombers.

Yeah, and I see airplanes being flown into buildings all the time too.

Why isn’t it the point? She couldn’t possibly have hid a TNT belt under her headscarf any more than you can hide an aircraft carrier in your house. I can’t understand why she would be asked it, either. She couldn’t have been hiding a weapon in that thing.
[/quote]

Or just watch the ones who may possibly do something like that. You know, the ones who’s religion is hijacked all over the world. Where the only consistant violence in the world is taking place. Hint hint.

And we all must remove our shoes before going onto an airplane. (as far as I know) Why would headress be different? Oh, because of someone’s religion? Sorry, who is know for suicide bombings in the world today?

Lujack;

And they aren’t the only ones who wear headscarves.

Clearly the most common in the US.

You don’t have a religious reason to wear a hat. What if this woman was a nun? Would you support forcing them to not wear the habit?

Yep. Especially if their religion was hijacked by suicidal nuts. Of course I would. I am not looking to discriminate against Muslims, with reason behind it. I probably have more in common with most Muslims than I do with seculars or Liberals. From what I know about this case or judge, the rule is nobody wears head coverings of any kind, not just limited to Muslims.

Lujack;

Why isn’t it the point? She couldn’t possibly have hid a TNT belt under her headscarf any more than you can hide an aircraft carrier in your house. I can’t understand why she would be asked it, either. She couldn’t have been hiding a weapon in that thing.

Are you sure? We cannot bring in tiny bottles of fluids on a plane. Or the shoe bomber. His bomb couldn’t have been that big. Big enough to fit in a shoe, then big enough to fin on her head. Or a nun’s, or an Jews. Or some redneck baseball hat.

Plus, all people are required to remove any kind of headcovering, not just Muslims. Did you know that a friend of hers works for CAIR?

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