U.S. military probing more possible civilian deaths in Yemen raid


#1

U.S. military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations.

As a result, three officials said, the attacking SEAL team found itself dropping onto a reinforced al Qaeda base defended by landmines, snipers, and a larger than expected contingent of heavily armed Islamist extremists.

reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-commando-idUSKBN15G5RX


#2

It’s a good article.

So, Trump’s first military action was to slaughter a bunch of civilians. We can be entirely, 100% certain it won’t be the last time, obviously. What we can’t be certain of, is whether or not Trump personally ordered the slaughter of an eight year old little girl named Nawar al-Awlaki. That may well come across as uncharitable, but it’s a serious and legitimate question, because Donald Trump has repeatedly said that he favors murdering the innocent families of terrorists, a practice which the Germans call sippenhaft.

cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/

Having a Special Forces combat vet neighbor who I’m becoming friends with, someone who served four tours of duty in Afghanistan, I’ve heard some extremely chilling stuff. I’d like to give Trump the benefit of the doubt and guess that he didn’t personally order this, but I’ve heard some entirely real, entirely honest and entirely mind-boggling stories regarding US activities in the Middle East, so I am definitely not 100% certain. We know that Obama personally authorized the murder of Nawar’s father, Anwar al-Awlaki, without a trial, so we have to assume that our new President is, or will eventually, do the same type of thing.


#3

The Obama administration had approved this operation in theory, but did not give a go-ahead because the operation needed to be done at a certain time, and that time would not occur again until after Obama was out of office.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Most fighters try to minimize civilians casualities by staying away from civilians, so the French and Italian resistance fighters lived in the woods and not in town or where their loved ones might be in danger.


#4

The article said that a military commander gave the go-ahead for this mission and Obama postponed it.

Also, the article I read right after it happened said that the decision to act was determined by what was deemed optimal conditions one of which was lack of moonlight.

I highly doubt the Trump was watching the phases of the Moon and rushed the military into action. I would suspect that they came to him for permission to carry out the mission.

It’s hard to imagine a president questioning the decision to carry out the mission seeing as though a military Commander had signed off on it and it was determined conditions were right.

While it is very very horrific that this child was killed, why was she even there ? The terrorist group put her In Harm’s Way. The article also stated that these women were shooting at our Seals.

How many more beheadings do we have to tolerate ? Or how many bombings ? In Africa female suicide bombers are carrying babies to avoid detection as they make their way to their target.

These barbaric radicals must be stopped and sadly innocent people will die along the way.

This is a war we did not start, but one we must end.


#5

And as far as what Trump said about killing the families of terrorists, yes it is a terrible mindset. But I cannot imagine our military following such orders to do so.


#6

Of course the military would not do that, nor is that the order given.


#7

This is an area I don’t agree with the President. We can’t be the worlds police force and a battle against an ideology is impossible to win.

The Middle East has shown for millennia that it cannot support a democratic type of system. Whether the reason is cultural, historical or theological, the Wests military intervention ultimately serves little purpose.


#8

What is the US doing in Yemen? Is this not a sovereign nation? Have they declared war on the US? Have they committed war crimes against the US? Who (what nation or nations) are we doing these things on behalf of? And how does any of this serve/ advance the interests of the US? I believe we are involved in matters that are not our concern.

I am wondering if these special forces, along with President Trump, weren’t set up for what unfolded (i.e., the compound was tipped off to the raid) – maybe similar to what happened to Seal Team 6 and the shooting down of a helicopter with significant loss of American life.

As for killing the families of terrorists: the following is barbaric and brutal and beyond the pale of what a majority of “civilized” people and nations would approve or endorse. It goes against everything we stand for as a nation (US Constitution) and against human rights.

With that being said: I recall a number of years ago that several Russian diplomats were kidnapped by terrorists. The diplomats were threatened with torture and execution if certain demands were not met. The terrorists killed one of the diplomats to make good on their threat. The Russians responded by kidnapping family members of the terrorists. After the diplomat was killed, one of the family members of the terrorists was killed and dismembered; body parts were sent to the terrorists with the message that unless the diplomats were released unharmed, then this would be the fate of the remaining family. The diplomats were released unharmed. The message: kidnapping and killing of Russian diplomats carries a stiff price tag. Yes, Russia has had diplomats who are assassinated outright and God only knows the price that those responsible have paid for that wrong.

Apparently Russia’s approach has guaranteed a degree of safety for its people. Was this right or ethical or moral or Christian? No. Was it effective? Yes. There are measures which stop short of the Russian version of payback and retribution. Maybe a taking of all financial assets and deportation of the family members of the terrorist might be an effective deterrent. Doesn’t Israel bulldoze the family home of the those who commit terrorist acts?

These are awful things to have to contemplate. We are dealing with people who videotape children blowing up vehicles with those they have slated for death inside and children using others who are slated for death as target practice and who think nothing of having children become suicide bombers … and a whole lot of other unthinkable and barbaric acts.


#9

I’m not sure why Trumps immigration ban gets all this attention but his continuation of unjust attacks on foreigners that results in death gets not attention. Death is far worse than not letting a foreigner in the country.

Some will. The military is a mixed bag. They are mostly young men taught to follow all orders. Some even join the military because it allows them to terrorize and kill. There is nothing special about the US that exempts our military from human nature.


#10

That’s where I’d disagree. Trump seemingly questioned every decision Obama ever made. Why would he agree with this one easily?


#11

Ummm, because he was running for President against the candidate that was carrying Obama’s torch, and because he believes the people in place advising him are more competent than those advising Obama? Just a wild guess.


#12

Because Trump is doing** what he is TOLD to do**.


#13

Thanks. And love the attitude from someone who’s been here all of 4 days. :thumbsup:


#14

This is not good…


#15

This is what Eisenhower warned us about. Trump might be useful now as a clown, but when it comes to what happened in Yemen, he does what he is told. Just like Obama, and Bush, and Clinton before him.
That’s why I voted third party.


#16

This article reflects what I have been thinking:

While the idea of the bumbling neophyte president carelessly ordering a doomed military raid over appetizers may jibe with many people’s preexisting fears about Trump, the bottom line is that if the operations plan for the raid was really that flawed, then the blame for the Yemen raid lies primarily at the feet of the nation’s military planners, not the new commander in chief.

vox.com/world/2017/2/2/14485736/trump-fault-yemen-raid-al-qaeda


#17

Obama did not go through with it. But Trump did.

Opposite decisions.


#18

Have you so soon forgotten the USS Cole?


#19

Obama did not go through with it because the moon was in the wrong phase, and would not be in the correct phase until after the inauguration.


#20

Right, but the military are the ones that determined when favorable conditions will increase the chance of the mission’s success.

That’s all I’m trying to point out.


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