U.S. Senator Disrupts Summit in Washington, Saying Christians are Israel's Ally


#21

“If you will not stand with Israel and the Jews, then I will not stand with you. Thank you and God bless you.”

This is a disturbing statment from a Christian. Plus there’s nothing I hate more than when people use phrases like “God bless you” as a dismissive statement.

How many political points did he score with this stunt? I’d wish I could say 0 but I’m more cynical than that.


#22

I think this thread is a good example of the influence that evangelical fundamentalism has on American Catholics. Most Christians in the world (including Catholics and the Orthodox) do not support Israel the way that US evangelicals do. There is nothing anti-Semitic about that at all. In fact, my opinion is that a good number of those that support Israel’s secular goals are not what you would call accepting of Jews or Judaism. Many American evangelicals want Israel to succeed in reunifying the supposedly historical Jewish state because they believe doing so will spark the second coming. (And many also believe that all Jews will then be damned to Hell in the process.) The Catholic Church does not teach that (or teach that all Jews are damned.) But some Catholics hear all the noise that evangelicals make about Israel and believe they should, too, despite the theological differences between what the Church teaches and what those evangelicals believe.


#23

I don’t know how large the audience was, but the amount of booing seemed fairly limited to me. i understand those who organized the meeting apologized to Cruz later for “a few” who got out of hand.

I am not particularly fond of Cruz. But I think this story has a lot less significance than some give it.


#24

People are at liberty to hate Jews and Israel at their leisure, but if that is their stance then it is only natural that they would hate America too. America, even Obama’s America, is the invaluable partner of Israel.

It is a legitimate provocation, now that America is entering yet another ME war, this time on behalf of the Christians there threatened with genocide, to show to those ME Christians the nature of their friends, and their friends friends.

Evangelical Christians like Jews.
Jeer at your leisure.
.


#25

Which way do Catholics and Orthodox support Israel since your speaking for them?

I don’t think this has anything to do with anything. Your post suggests “some Catholics” hear all the noise of evangelicals. Which in my mind seems to suggest those here which I find preposterous, ill though out, and frankly nonsense. Also I can’t find where Cruz said anything about this which again is assumption. In fact very much the opposite was stated about zionism and on this thread. What the Catholic Church teaches can be found in the CCC. I fail to see your point. Did the Othordox and Catholic suggest we should support Hamas? Of course not, and this is the issue we are talking about? If its not then let me know.

Let me be crystal clear for you. I don’t “have to” support either. I support the Jews because in fact I believe they are “right”. And thats who we should be supporting if anyone.

The organization is …

“In Defense of Christians,” which describes itself as a “non-profit, non-partisan organization whose mission is to heighten awareness among policymakers and the general public of the existence of ancient and often persecuted minority communities in the Middle East, particularly Christians.”

He said…

“Tonight, we are all united in defense of Christians,” Cruz began his speech by saying. “Tonight, we are all united in defense of Jews.”

“ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, state sponsors like Syria and Iran, are all engaged in a vicious genocidal campaign to destroy religious minorities in the Middle East,”

“Christians have no greater ally than Israel,” he said, prompting boos. “Those who hate Israel hate America.”

“Those who hate Jews hate Christians. If those in this room will not recognize that, then my heart weeps. If you hate the Jewish people you are not reflecting the teachings of Christ. And the very same people who persecute and murder Christians right now, who crucify Christians, who behead children, are the very same people who target Jews for their faith, for the same reason.”

Here…“Christians have no greater ally than Israel,” he said, prompting boos. “Those who hate Israel hate America” The connection here is a Christian America.

Are you telling me the “few hecklers” in the room were acting appropriate? Thats absurd and is a stretch of the imagination. Tell me what do we have to say about that behavior as “Catholics and Orthodox” since your speaking for them?


#26

From what I’ve heard, Evangelicals had a big part in planning this and Cruz was their idea.


#27

Do you have a link for the conspiracy theory you propose which again has nothing to do with anything here, or what in fact was stated by Cruz? While your here, do you think the “heckling” was appropriate?


#28

Where did you hear this?


#29

I can’t link to facebook since it’s blocked at work. It was on a facebook page, a man who said he’s involved with the Summit speculated that it was Evangelicals that wanted Cruz. Sure it’s speculation but it’s not exactly a secret that Evangelicals are among Israels biggest apologists in the U.S. I’m not comfortable posting his name as it was a comment in a public group and I don’t know him. It was Catholic Social Thought, Politics, and the Public Square. I hope it’s okay to mention the name of the page here.

I do think it was appropriate. These are people who are among the most persecuted in the world and Ted Cruz used it as an opportunity to score some pro-Israeli points. Did he say anything helpful for the situation in the Middle East?


#30

So you have nothing but opinion and choose to support one of the two wrongs and call it right. Again thats preposterous. And just so you know…

The president of a Christian group that hosted a gala where Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) walked off the stage Wednesday after being disrupted by some in the audience said Cruz’s decision was as “unfortunate” as the actions of those who heckled him.

“Senator Cruz abruptly ended his remarks accusing some participants of being ‘consumed with hate.’ That was as unfortunate as the inappropriate reaction by a small number of attendees," said In Defense of Christians President Toufic Baaklini in a Thursday statement.


#31

What if you saw to on Facebook it must be right


#32

I am not speaking for Catholics or Orthodox, merely making the observation that most Christians around the world do not support Israel in the way that American evangelicals do. I think that is true (and obviously so), but if I am wrong about that, I am happy to hear how.

I am not a fan of heckling, but I do understand how they feel.

It seems to me that Cruz is trying to draw a direct connection between being Christian and supporting Israel - do you agree with him on that? If so, does it trouble you that the Church does not agree?


#33

Cruz should have been away of the sensitivities of his audience and those in the audience who disagreed with him should not have booed. It was rude and uncalled for.


#34

Thanks for the info, which Im sure most here are aware of and has zip to do with the incident or the thread.

They were wrong period. Understanding how someone feels doesn’t validate the behavior.

Seems to me your working on conjecture, speculation and opinion and it doesn’t deserve a further response.


#35

A voice of reason? :smiley:


#36

Cruz response to the night in question…

“I came to this event tonight to help shine a light on the tragic persecution and slaughter of Christians by ISIS and Islamic radicals throughout the Middle East. American leaders have been far too silent as to this horrific evil,” Cruz said. “But bigotry and hatred have no place in this discussion. Antisemitism is a corrosive evil, and it reared its ugly head tonight.”

Thats what I came away from the speech with also. Namely, America supports Israel and statistically is Christian. We don’t support terrorist groups or Assad, unless someone here does? By all means speak up.

I have no reason not to take him at his own word. Now if someone can prove otherwise I’ll be here an hour or so longer. We already heard what some think Cruz thinks and then watched that proposed as the thinking of some here. I think some here just don’t like Cruz and have an agenda and opinion and absolutely no proof. Obviously opinions are like pennies today.

Does anyone here want to think for the hecklers and what they think they were thinking?


#37

I am not sure what you are saying. You seem to agree with me that most Christians, including the Catholic Church, do not support Israel the way that American evangelicals (like Cruz) do. I am not sure how that has “zip” to do with this thread, which is about how some Christians responded to a particular American evangelical’s comments on Israel. Seems to me that is exactly what the thread is about.

If you don’t want to answer my question about the fact that Cruz and other evangelicals’ position on Israel differs from the Church’s, I guess I understand that. But it seems germane to the conversation.


#38

The article isn’t about American envangelical’s. So I fail to see your point.

Seems to me all this is, is conjecture since I can’t find this evangelical agenda you propose exists in anything said. Its assumption. He spoke as as US Rep and on the US position. Its clear.

Where was Cruz speaking for evangelicals in the speech, nothing indicates this. Oh wait…no-where.

I don’t see where this is in question, so its irrelevant to me.

I think you have a Cruz agenda. We don’t have a Catholic President either do you assume he is speaking only for evangelicals? How about the last President and everyone else not Catholic in Congress and the Senate? Rather ridiculous to assume they are speaking only for evangelicals in a political position as a Christian. In fact Catholics wouldn’t be speaking only for Catholics either in a political position.

“I came to this event tonight to help shine a light on the tragic persecution and slaughter of Christians by ISIS and Islamic radicals throughout the Middle East. American leaders have been far too silent as to this horrific evil,” Cruz said. “But bigotry and hatred have no place in this discussion. Antisemitism is a corrosive evil, and it reared its ugly head tonight.”


#39

Paul Ryan, Catholic US Congress…

America has no better friend in the Middle East than the nation of Israel. Not only is Israel the region’s only fully functioning democracy – with a government based on popular consent and the rule of law – but it is also a valuable ally against Islamic extremism and terrorism. Our shared democratic values and national interests are supported by maintaining a close friendship with Israel. Americans also have a strong interest in Israel achieving a lasting peace with its neighbors—including both the Iranians and Palestinians.

Reasonable people – including those who live in the Middle East – differ about how the conflict between Israel and Palestine can be resolved. However, I believe at least one thing is clear: we cannot advocate for a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that jeopardizes Israel’s safety or legitimizes terrorism. Hamas, which is one of the two major Palestinian political factions, is an Islamist terrorist group whose charter calls for Israel’s destruction, refuses to recognize Israel’s existence, and deems Osama Bin Laden to be a “martyr.” Real peace will require Palestinians to recognize that Israel has a right to exist, even as it will require two states for the two peoples.

Further, the importance of preventing Iran from achieving nuclear capability cannot be overstated. Should Iran become nuclear capable, not only would U.S. non-proliferation objectives be undermined, but other countries in the region could perceive their national security to be dependent on the attainment of nuclear weapons as well. Given the United States’ commitment to Israel’s defense, I have signed on as a cosponsor of H.R.850, the Nuclear Iran Prevention Act, which expands U.S. efforts to impose sanctions on Iran and H.R.938, the United States-Israel Strategic Partnership Act, which dramatically strengthens the relationship between Israel and the United States. As events continue to unfold, rest assured that I will closely monitor developments in both Palestine and Iran while maintaining an unwavering commitment to the dense of Israel.

Maybe Paul needs a CCC copy, but I don’t think so. Maybe its what he believes is right. And according to my catechism thats the right position.

Maybe no Catholic political candidate needs the evangelical vote and should use that as a wedge since there position in relation to Catholics became a point of contention in the mind of some. First thing they should do is break out the CCC and get to discussing the Rapture and denounce it in pubic. :shrug:

In fact Cruz has spoke brilliantly on Catholics when no Catholic has in Congress.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnsnews.com%2Fnews%2Farticle%2Fmichael-w-chapman%2Fsen-cruz-mr-president-when-did-democratic-party-declare-war-catholic&ei=12QTVN_yIIjG8AHLwIHYDg&usg=AFQjCNHh47oKCsGpbiiPy87N4kwC5yjmmQ&bvm=bv.75097201,d.b2U

Senate Democrats should not wage war on the Catholic church,” said Cruz. “President John F. Kennedy, in an historic speech to the nation, said – quote – ‘I would not look with favor upon a president working to subvert the first amendment’s guarantees of religious liberty.’ Mr. President, where are the Kennedys today? Does any Democrat have the courage to stand up and speak for the First Amendment today? Does any Democrat have the courage to stand up and speak for the constitutional rights of practicing Catholics? Does any Democrat have the courage to stand up and speak for the Little Sisters of the Poor? Do any Democrats have the courage to listen to the Catholic Conference of Bishops and speak for religious liberty? Mr. President, it saddens me that there are not 100 senators here unified, regardless of our faith, standing together protecting the religious liberty rights of everyone.”

Was he speaking as an evangelical for the Catholics? :rolleyes:

regardless of our faith


#40

Maybe they were angry at him for mentioning the completely random–completely random–topic of Israel when it’s Christians in other countries being killed. Afaik Iraq does not have a sizable Jewish population, and even if it did, what’s that got to do with Israel? Isn’t that a little implicitly racist?


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