Uconscionable

Assaulting Christianity
Opposition to humanity
In the Land of the Free
Decrees of man - insanity

Sterilization - contraception
Terminating pregnancies
Mandates without exemption
War against our liberty

Unconscionable game plan
Unconstitutional demands
Collision course with destiny
Compromising Christianity

Unprecedented abomination
Unjust power in hands of man
Godless laws of a free nation
Veiled within a health care plan

People of faith take a stand
In opposition to this unjust plan
Unconscionable insane decree
An assault on core Christianity

well, we shouldnt oppose the entire healthcare plan because the fact is that healthcare does need reform. we as catholics should only oppose the abortion part of it. you know, this is really our fault as much as it is the secularist’s. because where was the the american church 10 years ago under Bush? why didnt catholics advocate normal healthcare reform before obama took office? because american catholics didnt care, so you cant blame this entirely on obama or the secularists, because if the church would have been pro-active in supporting a christian universal healthcare bill, then maybe more people would listen to us now.

I disagree. We as Catholics need to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America (which the healthcare plan violates) The evidence of the violation is apparent in the HHS ruling which has some Catholics up in arms, but that’s not new, that’s part of it.

It is unconstitutional to require anybody to buy anything for the simple reason that they are alive(which this mess does). If they can get by one Constitutional issue they can get by others, i.e., freedom of worship rather than freedom of religion - a huge difference. The latter is guaranteed by the Constitution, the former is what this crew in Washington (and all CINOs) wants.

The healthcare system (by that people mean the acquisiton of insurance for little or no cost), the methods of cost shifting of R&D costs from other countries, the tort system, overtesting, etc (the true cost basis) really does need to be repaired at its core.

This law does neither. My insurance costs are up since it passed, how about yours?

your banal opinion:(

i didnt really mean we should support the bill itself, (because yes this bill is just another corporate scam) i meant that we should support the idea behind the bill (free healthcare for all working citizens).
and why do you care so much about the constitution? its an outdated document which has already been altered in many ways just to keep up with the times. for example did you know the constitution orignally stated that only landowners could vote? would you support bringing back that law? and there are many such laws from the original constitution which have been altered. the constitution should be scrapped and replaced with a new constitution based on social justice and christian ethics.

Who gets to vote on property taxes? Land owners or everybody? If I had no land, I would vote for really high property taxes. It doesn’t seem fair does it?

You’re kidding, right? “free healthcare for all working citizens”. First “free” means that some people (doctors, nurses, techs) and entities (hospitals) have to be placed into involuntary servitutde (slavery) to provide the services for free. Where is this “free” entity going to get the money to build a free hospital? Are the construction crews going to work for nothing? Is somebody going to donate the building materials? The furnishings? diagnostic machines?

And then you limit it to working citizens. Are you kidding? WHat about the old, the infirm, the children? Wait, I’ve got it! We’ll enslave them and send them to medical school and they can work for us for FREE!!! Wheeeeee!!! Free free free, I love free.

None of your plans equate to social justice or christian ethics. They amount to forcing somebody else to pay for what you want so you can have it free!!!

In Austria it’s “free”, everybody pays a social service fee of 46% of gross - BEFORE INCOME TAX to get the FREE stuff. You should think of moving there. Pretty buildings and oodles of ethics.

you know nothing :slight_smile:
first of all, EVEN IF proponents of free healthcare would be advocating the “enslavment” of doctors, pharmacists, etc. its not more unethical than what the insurance companies are doing to us now. they charge extremely expensive rates and then DENY you when you actually need the care. some people work hard their entire lives for their house, car, etc. but they suffer a medical emergency, and guess what, when their insurance company denies them they have to declare bankrupcy and all their lifes work is wasted. did you know almost 65% of bankruptcies in the US are caused bny medical expenses?
no one is advocating enslaving the doctors. thats just your messed up assumption that you were told by the fear mongers down at FOX news.
free healthcare is the ideal, but untill we can reach that ideal, our goal should be to make it as affordable as possible. for example, the government should step in and tell these insurance companies that they cant deny clients for pre-existing conditions, and also ban co- pays, place caps on how much doctors can charge per visit, and other such minor regulations would be all that is needed. and there would not be the slightest increase in taxes, so your straw man argument is out the door.
its sad to see how some people actually support the very system that is making a slave out of him. its not right to charge some poor guy massive rates and then deny him for some bogus reason when he would actually need the care that he PAYED for. its incredibly unethical regardless of how “patriotic” and “american” mr bill oreilly makes it seem.
by the way i lived in europe, i lived in a tiny third world balkan nation, and the healthcare there was still way bettter than here in the US.

I’m sorry, but you are dreadfully mis-informed or else not grasping the situation. The healtcare in a Balkan state is not “way better” than it is here. Are you trying to foist off the idea that a 3 ward Balkan hospital with rusty beds from the 1950’s is better than Sloan Kettering or the Mayo Clinic? That’s the kind of hoo-har Michael Moore tried to offer about Cuba. Is that what you want people to believe? Do you want to go to the Balkans for your heart valve replacement? Are you kidding?

What you mean is the apparent cost to you at the time service was rendered was less. If you’re going to argue Obamacare you need to laser in on what you mean.

Here, I’ll say it for you: “I want all I want, when I want and I want you to pay for it.” Right?

We as Catholics need to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America

As a non-American Catholic I always find this implicit comparision between the Church and the US constitution odd.

I think that is many people’s misunderstanding -free healthcare for all working citizens.
Nothing is free. The Obamacare is not “free for all working citizens”. Everyone pays out of his own pocket except for those poorest of the poor who are having safety net currently without Obamacare anyway. Obamacare **requires **, mandates for everyone to buy healthcare. Some people right now take the risk of not buying healthcare, either they cannot afford it or they are young and healthy to take the chance. But under Obamacare, they are not allowed to take such a chance, they have to buy healthcare. That is the nature of Obamacare, healthcare for everyone, but not free.

I agree with this. Free markets where consumers and providers can mutually agree to arrangements (e.g. prices and services) would eventually provide the most economic and effective healthcare for Americans. Of course, a safety net could and should be provided for the poorest, but otherwise, I agree that Obamacare it only unconstitutional, but will end up being more expensive for everyone involved.

In any case, I pray for wisdom by our lawmakers in this issue.

God bless,
Bryan

You are right, it will be more expensive for everyone. Actually, once the Obamacare was passed, many insurance premium have already been raised up. Insurance company is pro-active before 2013. Obamacare pays for those safety net where most of them do not cash in the benefit right now. In other words, those poorest of the poor, if they are not sick, not going to hospital, they don’t take any benefit of the safety net. When Obamacare kicks in, those people who have the safety anyway, will have healthcare coverage, their premium will be paid. As for the rest of Americans, everyone has to purchase the insurance out of his own pocket with higher premium. :mad:

I don’t think it is so much a comparison as a recognition of the privilege we enjoy as Catholics/Christians of religious liberty that is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution to every single person–not just churches or organizations–but to every single person! President Obama is arrogantly mangling the constitution of the United States, and in spirit spitting in the faces of all those in our military who have died to keep secure the rights we have as citizens to worship God as we please.

In simplest terms, the Constitution of the United States of America is the foundational document that prevents the government from supressing the Church. I didn’t compare anything. I said we need to support the Constitution for absent that stricture, the government could and would suppress the faith.

Yes, I can see how it would seem odd - they are referring to the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution (part of the Bill of Rights) that guarantees freedom of religion, which for the first time and to the great shock of many Americans who never thought they would live to see this day, is under attack from its own government. The HHS mandate (ridiculous word, that, since they cannot mandate anything that goes against the Constitution which is the highest law in the land) intends to force Catholic institutions to pay for health insurance that includes contraception, sterilization, and abortifacient drugs.

it is like the US government ordering by ‘mandate’ that from now on all Jewish delicatessens must sell ham sandwiches so people are given full sandwich options, even though they can just go down the street to another non-Jewish deli and get a ham sandwich.

“The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.”

The actual text:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

President Lincoln warned that the danger to the US does not lie in foreign enemies; the danger lies within, and he was oh so right.

In the US, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are sacrosanct.

God bless you.

I don’t think I’ve heard it described better!

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