Ukraine protests: Two people killed in Kiev clashes


#1

Had a bad feeling it was coming this week bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25838962 Aljazeera is reporting 3 killed. Rioting to join the EU ? Maybe the Ukrainians need to talk to some people in Greece, Spain, Italy ? Wonder how you say Bailouts, and Austerity Measures in Ukrainian.


#2

I think the reason the Ukrainians want to join is because of the threat that Russia poses, i.e., the Russians are meddling into Ukrainian affairs.


#3

I’ve seen conflicting reports about a third death as well – the third death is reported to be a protester who died in a fall, but some news reports say he survived.

As for the protests in general, I think at this point it’s about more than the EU. People have been fed up with the current government and the corruption, and then the laws that were just introduced (passed by the majority party with many procedural irregularities) banning protests and cracking down on any criticism of the government… And since the president is refusing to even meet with any opposition politicians, it doesn’t look like a resolution to the crisis is coming anytime soon. :-/

The violence is very sad and I am praying for peace.

Here’s a commentary yesterday by George Weigel on the recent events in Ukraine:
nationalreview.com/article/369098/grim-news-ukraine-george-weigel


#4

Praying for the souls lost and those suffering.


#5

CNN now reporting 4 killed.


#6

Ukraine is divided between those who support Russia and those who support further integration in the western EU. What role do the two large Churches in Ukraine, Russian Orthodox and Greek Catholic, (and other churches also) play in trying to bring about a peaceful solution?


#7

“Increased tensions in Ukraine are a direct consequence of the Ukrainian government’s failure to engage in real dialogue and the passage of anti-democratic legislation,” a US state department spokeswoman said.

Russia has accused the EU and US of “outside interference” in Ukrainian affairs.

“The question of patriarchal status is part of the complex relationship between Ukrainian Catholics, the Vatican, and Eastern Orthodoxy. The Ukrainian Catholic Church’s 1596 reunion with Rome, achieved after long periods of separation, remains controversial among the Orthodox.”

ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/World.php?id=4413


#8

Seriously, there are those who support Russia, i.e., in what manner do they support Russia? Don’t think the majority of Ukrainians are pro-Russian (especially when they recall what it felt like to live under soviet rule).

p.s. Please read the article posted by Anastasia (on this thread).


#9

This was also posted by another Catholic member:

The Ministry of Culture of Ukraine in an official letter threatened to deprive religious organizations Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church of the legal status.

The reason for such a reaction of the Government is a religious activity, which is allegedly executed by “the representatives, in particular of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, on Independence Square in Kyiv during December of last year and in the new – 2014”.

The protests on Independence Square in Kyiv began after the Government’s Nov. 21 announcement that it would not sign a major economic partnership agreement with the European Union.

More information on the official website: news.ugcc.org.ua/en/news/_pre…tus_68849.html

Please support and share petition “Please protect the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church from deprivation of the legal status by the Ukrainian Government” -

petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet…nment/ctPBmF08


#10

Recent polls show that 72% of Ukrainians support Ukrainian moves to get closer to Russia.
Read more: voiceofrussia.com/2010/04/26/6936363/
If Russia is not popular, how do you suppose that Viktor Yanukovych got elected president?


#11

Not sure I trust these polls, and Russian involvement in Ukrainian affairs is how Viktor Yanukovych got elected!


#12

There were also polls done (prior to Yanukovych backing out of the EU agreement) that showed around 70% of Ukrainians supported the economic agreement with the EU, while simultaneously about 70% of them supported an economic agreement with Russia. Of course Putin made clear those two things are mutually exclusive, but that’s what the polls were showing. :shrug: So the situation is not exactly as black and white as you paint it.

Today’s updates: Until 8 p.m. local time, a truce has been declared between protesters and police after some negotiation by Vladimir Klitschko (a former boxer turned opposition politician). The parliament has been called into emergency session, and everyone waits to see what will happen. Meanwhile, some photos and videos are leaking out of police torturing protesters… And the photos and videos are of such quality that it appears they are being leaked by people within the police force.

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-jan-23-live-updates-335389.html


#13

Vitaliy Klitschko. Sorry, brain glitch for a second.


#14

In the Far West and Central areas of Ukraine, opposition to the government is overwhelming. In the Far East and South of the country, support for the government is likewise overwhelming.


#15

Timothy Cardinal Dolan released a statement on this today:
cardinaldolan.org/index.php/supporting-the-euro-maiden-movement-in-ukraine/

I’m very ignorant as to what’s going on in Ukraine. It seems to me that the Cardinal is siding with the protesters, and that the protesters are heavily religious. So, should I be rooting for them?

And personally, if I was given the choice between falling in the orbit of Russia or entering the orbit of the E.U., I would prefer the orbit of Russia at the present time. 21 years ago my answer would be different. But, Europe wasn’t as secular and infected with the gay agenda, etc, and the Soviet Block was still officially atheistic, and denied religious freedom.

Today, Russia has done things which many people on this forum see as good news. Whereas, you don’t hear about much good news from the E.U. on these forums. Honestly, I hope the E.U. elections this year will be the beggining of the end to that institution.

That’s just my opinion, I understand that the Ukrainian people are factoring in historical grievances, etc.


#16

Does this mean then that the protestors are largely from the Greek Catholic Church, while those supporting the pro-Russian government are largely from the Eastern Orthodox Church? Is this a religious war of some sort, similar to other religious wars, like in Northern Ireland?


#17

Photo of the Day: Orthodox priests on the front lines in Ukraine

hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2014/01/23/photo-of-the-day-orthodox-priests-on-the-front-lines-in-ukraine/

It speaks volumes. . .


#18

All I know is what Timothy Cardinal Dolan said: “What began as inspirational, prayerful, peaceful, powerful protest, dubbed the Euro Maiden Movement, characterized by prayer and song led by Jewish, Orthodox, and Catholic clergy, has turned brutal and nasty, with government thugs relishing the chance to bludgeon and harass the hundreds of thousands of patriotic Ukrainians, and oppressive laws quickly passed to suppress freedoms.”

Again, I don’t know much about the protesters, or the situation in general… and haven’t been able to find any articles that dumb it down enough for an American like me to understand :smiley:


#19

I wonder if Cardinal Dolan saw the 2 policeman set on fire yesterday by the mob, or the other 2 policemen knocked down and savagely beaten. The more EU flags I see the more I feel sympathy for the government.


#20

Your post above illustrates your ignorance then of Ukraine’s situation but that has never stopped you from wading into this territory before now has it?

Innocent young people killed by snipers. And you start off with bailouts in Spain? Unbelievable. The protests took the twist they did not because of the EU but, if you actually knew something about Ukraine’s situation, because Yanukovych’s Mafia Party in the Ukrainian Parliament known as the Party of Regions, in alliance with its natural immoral partner in Ukraine’s parliament, the Communist Party, in a matter of seconds, without debate and a formal vote, legislated an end to the right of assembly in Ukraine in effect. An end to right of assembly, all passed within some 15 seconds. I always assumed Seamus your hatred of the West would probably sometime place you ultimately on the same side of the barricades as the communists.

If in the US or Canada, the President or Prime Minister rammed through the legislature in the matter of 15 seconds a law banning any right of assembly with no vote or debate to speak of, we’d be up in arms. Moreover, if the President of the United States’ government in writing threatened to make the Roman Catholic Church ILLEGAL in the US, Catholics would be out in the streets if their houses of worship were to be outlawed. The percentage of practicing Roman Catholics in the US relevant to the population is probably akin to the percentage of Ukrainian Catholics in Ukraine. So Yanukovych threatens to make the Ukrainian Catholic Church illegal, and Seamus shows no concern. The Roman Catholic Church as well comes to the support of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and its bishop in Kharkiv tells President Yanukovych then outlaw us Roman Catholics too.

Where is Seamus’ wrath? Directed at the EU of course. Sometime ago I proposed to you Seamus if things are so bad in the West, then why don’t you move to Russia. You chuckled a bit but I find you geographically still posting from the belly of the beast. I’ll make you a bet Seamus. Move to Yanukovych’s home region in Ukraine of Donetsk for a month. By the time you realize how insanely immoral and corrupt the whole system is in there, I venture you’d be begging to come back home. Yanukovych is a Mafia thug, convicted of rape and assault in his younger years, and the head of Donetsk’s own brutal mafia regime. Oh he uses the Ukrainian Orthodox Church subject to Moscow to illustrate his morality, but he has innocent people killed and beaten up to a pulp. Check out who Tetanya Chornovol is.
euronews.com/2013/12/25/anti-government-journalist-tetyana-chornovol-beaten-up-in-ukraine/

So after this fallacious vote on the right of assembly is taken, the Berkut militia in Ukraine (the successors to the Soviet Union’s OMON forces) on Yanukovych’s regime’s orders decides to storm the protestors in Kyiv who up until now have been peaceful. One segment responds with violence for violence, a group called Pravyi Sektor, some of whose members are provocateurs, with violence. It’s interesting because earlier on a similar subject you linked to a clip from RT showing Ukrainian anti-Yanukovych protestors riding a bulldozer into the Berkut lines. Guess who was behind that act - a party I think you once praised by the name of “Bratstvo” in Ukrainian. They had picture of the head of this party, Dmytro Korchynsky, on the bulldozer and Ukraine’s democratic opposition even pointed it out to Yanukovych. Do you think Yanukovych arrested Bratstvo or this Korchynsky fellow? Absolutely no. And do you know why Seamus? Because he and his party are on Yanukovych’s payroll to pose as his opposition. Korchynsky is still a free man whereas several innocent fellows have been arrested for that incident who had no dealings with it. But guess what? Korchynsky got to fill out his duty by making the protestors look like extremists and got the footage shown on RT on a loop to show how violent the protestors are. Mission accomplished.

This is an old trick of many modern day autocrats. Arrest legitimate reasonable opposition (Yulia Tymoshenko, Yuri Lutsenko) and pour millions into the coffers of the most extreme parties you can find to tarnish the opposition.

The protests now, if you are following them, are now about putting an end to Yanukovych’s autocratic brutal regime. The whole EU push was made to get any help from the West to have Ukraine become a nation of the rule of law, much like Poland its neigbour. Seamus, if you wish to defend a Mafia Don, Yanukovych, who lives in a mansion filled with exotic animals, a personal Yacht, gold-plated rooms in his mansion all at the public’s purse, a Mafia Don who threatens to make the Catholic Church illegal, a Mafia Don who has no problems seeing innocent young women butchered halfway to death for taking pictures of his mansion, a Mafia Don who shares the same immoral code as the Communists, a Mafia Don who orders Berkut troops (many against their conscience) to wreak havoc and reap the whirlwind, then my congratulations to you Seamus.

Much of the population have had enough. For the past several weeks they have been trying to convince the Berkut militia to quit following the thug Yanukovych’s orders and many have responded. The Berkut in several of Ukraine’s provinces have already asked their family to make human chains around their headquarters so they don’t have to beat people up for Yanukovych.


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