Understanding differences between American Liberals and Conservatives


#1

Passionate good intentions alone are failing. I’ve simply realized that all the passionate good intentions in the world over the last few decades do not save souls in the presence of declining Virtues. For how many more decades are we going to continue to do the same things we’ve done, yet somehow magically expect that things will improve??? Why should we continue to do the same and continue to FAIL??? Society’s pop culture has led many men into lust and away from true love. That’s the truth. Broken relationships and the death of true love results.

If taxes are raised to give more money to those who will spend it on fashions, entertainment, and drugs, how is this improving their lives??? It’s not. It’s leading to their further reduction, but many can’t see it. If people invested the money in the stock market to improve their upward mobility, then great, but that’s not happening due to materialism. People compare hollywood mansions to what they have and decide that they themselves are not materialistic, not realizing how Virtues continue to erode in the pop culture media thanks to the atheist progressives who want to control the public’s values in order to depopulate the world and save the planet. It’s too bad the public did not give their consent for this, yet that’s exactly the direction into which society is being reduced and seduced via sex and drugs. Our passionate good intentions FAIL to compete with a Virtues-declining society. This failure to achieve satisfaction will only lead for more calls for more money in an attempt to satisfy the wrong urge, the wrong target. The target is materialism when it should be Virtues first, materialism second or lower. Worse yet, raising taxes simply becomes a money funnel to the entertainment, fashion, and drug cultures, quite the opposite of it’s intent.

If people NEED Virtues, but CHOOSE entertainment, then things will fail to improve. That’s the crux of the bitter difference in opinions. The Virtues are more closely aligned with Social conservatism. This certainly is not the Democrats. Financial liberalism COULD be the answer, but only in a culture that has Virtues FIRST, materialism SECOND or lower, and spands the money wisely, otherwise the moeny is leading to further reduction of those it was intended to help. The republican party’s social conservatism is the solution by default. Half the population is not wealthy. This is what most dems fail to realize.

The child in us want feelgoodism. The responsible adult in us neeeds to choose to eliminate whatever temptations stand in his/her way on the path to maintaining Virtues.

Don’t expect the media to rat on itself. They enjoy their influence over unquestioning people.



#2

There is not a lot of difference between Republicans and Democrats, when it comes to size of government. Consider a Libertarian Catholic view from:
**Applying Economics to American History | Thomas E. Woods, Jr. **

Also your first paragraph only alludes to the fallen nature of men. Since both men and women are fallen, the whole picture must be considered.


#3

Over the past several years, I’ve gotten closer to the conclusion that while the two major parties used to advocate for freedom to live different virtues, they are more and more putting their substantial efforts into advocating for the freedom to pursue different vices. There are refreshing exceptions to this, I am happy to say, but not nearly enough of them. It gets depressing, sometimes.

Having said that, whenever the Church has ever relied on “Caesar” to save souls, it has too often been Caesar that benefitted and souls that have suffered. It is the work of the Church to save souls and fight evil. If the government can be included in the effort, this is obviously a desirable outcome, but making that Plan A is a huge mistake.

I like the way Pope Benedict put in Deus Caritas Est:
Love—caritas—will always prove necessary, even in the most just society. There is no ordering of the State so just that it can eliminate the need for a service of love… There will always be suffering which cries out for consolation and help. There will always be loneliness. There will always be situations of material need where help in the form of concrete love of neighbor is indispensable.

The same is true of every work in which a just society ought to be engaged, from the formation of youth and the defense of social boundaries to the amicable resolution of disputes. None of this can ever be entirely left up to government or civil society. We can influence them–as Christian citizens of a democratic nation we are duty-bound to influence them–but we cannot rely on them! It is not nations that are Christian, but Christians acting as the Body of Christ that are “leaven” to a nation. Life, the true life that Christ offers, is never going to be imposed by a juridical system of law. That one true life, a life that must be freely chosen by each human being in the choices of a lifetime, is the only thing that saves souls. Nations, governments, systems: these cannot love. Only human beings can love. Only human beings can live out the virtues. That is what saves souls. We can never afford to forget that.


#4

[quote="C_S_P_B, post:2, topic:224769"]
There is not a lot of difference between Republicans and Democrats, when it comes to size of government. Consider a Libertarian Catholic view from:
*Applying Economics to American History | Thomas E. Woods, Jr. *

Also your first paragraph only alludes to the fallen nature of men. Since both men and women are fallen, the whole picture must be considered.

[/quote]

This may be true in some ways, but the Republican party has the values that stem from believing in the Constitution and the Judeo-Christian founding of this nation. The more liberal attitude has spread all throughout society until people hardly recognize its poison any more. Libertarians pretend to be conservative but this party was invented so pot-smokers could have a platform, and Libertarians invading the Republican party so they can win elections is part of what we need to purge (along with RINOS and other liberals). Having Libertarians stand on the sidelines and tell conservatives, "The parties are exactly alike" means that conservatives just stay home from elections and then, Democrats win. We need to hear messages of encouragement and empowerment, not "give up or vote Libertarian because they are all alike."

Ron Paul aside (and even he has made pro-abortion statements), the Libertarian party is not the party of life. The lassez-faire platform includes the right to abortion as well as the right to take drugs.

We have one possibility as fiscal and social conservatives, and that is to fight to take the Republican party where WE THE PEOPLE want it to go. Democrats are largely Communist Lite, if not out of the closet Commies. Libertarians are as above. We can't start a new party because then Democrats, who are always united behind their party banner, will always win in elections.


#5

Believeing in the Austrian School of Economics (von Mises & Hayek) and the limited government Libertarian principles of the Founding Fathers, does not mean that I don't usually vote Republican. It seems to me that neither party is willing to undo laws that compromise the family. I care about children and believe children need a father and a mother.

Since this is a political thread in the family life section, I would welcome some comments on this:

Feminism Was Created to Destabilize Society
I’m not understanding something, because this kind of makes sense to me.

Can I be Anti-Feminist and still value women?


#6

You can be anti-Feminazi which is what those NAGS were in the 60’s and 70’s. Real feminists would not support abortion because women deserve better than that. Real feminists would stand up against female genital mutilation even if it’s not politically correct to oppose anything that comes from islam.

feministsforlife.com/


#7

Real feminists should also oppose male circumcision.


#8

Both the "liberal" and "conservative" agendas in American politics today are morally bankrupt.

Even if the "conservative" views on traditional marriage and abortion are in line with the truth, there are so many other moral atrocities espoused (to me, the "conservative" view often centers around "might makes right) that identifying oneself as "conservative" is not in line with the truth. It's really putting the OK on things like torture and unjust warfare and foreign policy and the death penalty.

We need to avoid these labels as Christians and speak out only for what is right, regardless of how it's labeled politically.


#9

Oh here we go. I figured it wouldn’t be too long until someone brought up torture and war in connection with conservatism.

:yawn::sleep:


#10

Sleeping through the truth??

I would be ashamed to call myself either a conservative or a liberal in America today. I considered myself conservative for a long time, but now it means different things that I am not comfortable with.


#11

No, sleeping because these discussions are boring.:wink:


#12

[quote="TheRealJuliane, post:9, topic:224769"]
Oh here we go. I figured it wouldn't be too long until someone brought up torture and war in connection with conservatism.

:yawn::sleep:

[/quote]

When is somebody going to mention that conservatism isn't what it was when it was personified by William F. Buckley? Coul the Democratic party survive if the Republicans put someone like Teddy Roosevelt on the ticket again? I know they weren't perfect, but our political arena doesn't favor statesmen any more. Maybe the modern attention span is too short for substantial political thought, be it conservative or liberal.


#13

As a new seeker who feels compelled to learn more about the Catholic faith and who is very drawn to it, I am also fearful, because I am a liberal democrat and from this thread I get the sense that I might not be welcomed in the church because of that. Is Christianity today the exclusive territory of conservative republicans in the USA? I sure hope not!:confused:


#14

[quote="zenith15, post:13, topic:224769"]
As a new seeker who feels compelled to learn more about the Catholic faith and who is very drawn to it, I am also fearful, because I am a liberal democrat and from this thread I get the sense that I might not be welcomed in the church because of that. Is Christianity today the exclusive territory of conservative republicans in the USA? I sure hope not!:confused:

[/quote]

Well since the Democrat party's platform includes unlimited access to abortion, and also things like fetal stem cell research as well as euthanasia, Catholics really should NEVER vote for a Democrat. As you can see, though, from the 2008 Presidential election, 53% of Catholics managed to overcome their faith and vote purely based on race. That man, who is now in office, should have received NOT ONE Catholic vote! How could Catholics vote for the MOST pro-abortion Senator EVER to disgrace the halls of Congress??? He voted to deny the basic palliative medical care to babies born alive during an abortion!!!

The Catholic Church's stand on abortion is NEVER is it permissible: it is ALWAYS grave evil. If individual Catholics tell you something different they are wrong, and are putting their political party in front of their faith. It is not possible for a Catholic to support abortion in any way. ergo, being a Democrat is also impossible if you are a Catholic.

Obviously, we have a problem within the ranks.


#15

Well, I guess that answers that.

I don’t believe that we should affiliate ourselves with a certain political party because of only one single plank of that party–there’s a lot more to it than that. I would imagine that many republicans don;t necessarily agree with everything their party stands for either–but the overall preponderance of things they DO agree with outweighs the things they do not.

I find it sad that people would feel that anyone who votes a certain way cannot be part of their faith–that all Catholic Americans must be Republican. But, if that is the overall view then I guess I am in the wrong place.

I feel personally that many of the policies the Repubs stand for are just as bad if not worse than the abortion issue, and lead to the suffering and death of many Americans–including many of the babies saved from abortion. I believe firmly in social justice issues, I oppose the death penalty strongly, I want my tax dollars to go to helping those less fortunate than I, etc.

I have to tell you, that was a very off-putting answer to someone who is seeking to learn more about the faith, i.e., “You are from the wrong political party so God doesn’t want you in our church”.


#16

[quote="zenith15, post:15, topic:224769"]
Well, I guess that answers that.

I don't believe that we should affiliate ourselves with a certain political party because of only one single plank of that party--there's a lot more to it than that. I would imagine that many republicans don;t necessarily agree with everything their party stands for either--but the overall preponderance of things they DO agree with outweighs the things they do not.

I find it sad that people would feel that anyone who votes a certain way cannot be part of their faith--that all Catholic Americans must be Republican. But, if that is the overall view then I guess I am in the wrong place.

I feel personally that many of the policies the Repubs stand for are just as bad if not worse than the abortion issue, and lead to the suffering and death of many Americans--including many of the babies saved from abortion. I believe firmly in social justice issues, I oppose the death penalty strongly, I want my tax dollars to go to helping those less fortunate than I, etc.

I have to tell you, that was a very off-putting answer to someone who is seeking to learn more about the faith, i.e., "You are from the wrong political party so God doesn't want you in our church".

[/quote]

This is sad.

There are such things as pro-life Democrats. Last time I checked, we vote for people and put them into office because their platform is one that we can rely on, when they are in office and thus, will vote that way. So if it's a Democrat who is economically moderate and socially conservative, we should be able to trust that they will vote that way. Aren't we supposed to vote for the person, more than the party? Let's be honest here folks-- Republicans have been bankrolling votes from Christians for decades, yet haven't really done much to address the issue of abortion. Sarah Palin is really the only Republican politician that I've heard of who actually made it clear about participating in pro-life organizations, such as Feminists for Life.

I suppose we have to ask ourselves-- when it comes down to both parties, do we look at the issues that the person is actually going to do something about, or do we just default to voting Republican because the Republicans are supposedly the party for Christians?


#17

Things like this are funny.

Conversations between a conservative and a liberal.

Meet the Liberal Elite!
Liberal Taxes explained
Feminism explained
Affirmative Action explained

And then one of my all time favorites
Quantitative Easing Explained


#18

[quote="spunjalebi, post:16, topic:224769"]
This is sad.

There are such things as pro-life Democrats. Last time I checked, we vote for people and put them into office because their platform is one that we can rely on, when they are in office and thus, will vote that way. So if it's a Democrat who is economically moderate and socially conservative, we should be able to trust that they will vote that way. Aren't we supposed to vote for the person, more than the party? Let's be honest here folks-- Republicans have been bankrolling votes from Christians for decades, yet haven't really done much to address the issue of abortion. Sarah Palin is really the only Republican politician that I've heard of who actually made it clear about participating in pro-life organizations, such as Feminists for Life.

I suppose we have to ask ourselves-- when it comes down to both parties, do we look at the issues that the person is actually going to do something about, or do we just default to voting Republican because the Republicans are supposedly the party for Christians?

[/quote]

Yes, it is sad when a political party accepts abortion as part of its platform. And it's sad when Catholics make excuses for that party and say that "it's more complicated than just abortion." It really isn't. Any "pro-life Democrat" is going to vote as a Democrat, supporting the party, most of the time, which empowers the party to continue with its platform of death for unborn babies, for the use of their cells in utilitarian ways, and for euthanasia, or the taking of adult life when it is determined that life no longer has value. The platform is written so that those points are not straight out in your face, but it's not hard to find if you know what code words will be used.

I actually don't care what label one uses, it's the reality of what that group supports in legislation that matters. No, the Republican party isn't perfect, it's true, but does that excuse the Democrat party for its much greater evils of supporting unlimited access to abortion? No. More Republicans are pro-life, outspokenly so, and they support pro-life causes. Are all Republicans as conservatively pro-life as Catholics would like? No. We all have to get involved and get these parties to do what we want them to do. If the more moderate or even conservative Democrats want to take back that party from the crazy leftists who are in charge right now, then they should do it. If more conservative Republicans want to see their belief system represented in DC, then they too, should get involved and not sit on the sidelines and observe. That's how we've gotten to this point.

But I am going to stand on one point: That as it stands, the Democrat Party is totally at odds with being a Catholic who supports life from conception to natural death. I just don't see how that can be argued. Birth control, abortion, fetal stem cell research, euthanasia. All of that goes against what we as Catholics believe.

And p.s. - I really feel for pro-life Democrats. It must be really hard to figure out what to do, when the party you've belonged to has strayed so far from its traditional values.


#19

I guess Democrats for Life of America are just wasting their time?:shrug:


#20

[quote="C_S_P_B, post:2, topic:224769"]
There is not a lot of difference between Republicans and Democrats, when it comes to size of government. Consider a Libertarian Catholic view from:
*Applying Economics to American History | Thomas E. Woods, Jr. *

[/quote]

How anyone can be a libertarian and a catholic (and be fully aware as both) is beyond me.


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