Unexpected Frustration

I went to this parish today (another view) expecting to see this but instead I was very sad to see this.

Now that photo is not that disappointing. It would seem from that photo (taken by someone else outside the Christmas season) that a Mass could be said very reverently versus populum there.* Instead, the sacred vessels were glass, the deacon self communicated and gave the final blessing, the priest and deacon gave blessings in the communion line, and the sacristan spent a good two minutes before the open tabernacle before Mass counting Hosts.* Also frustrating but not as serious was the terrible use of the organ (which was massive but sounded like a chapel organ, and the sad lack of vestments (the priest wore a very anemic stole over his chasuble and the deacon didn't even wear a stole let alone a dalmatic), the incredible amount of talking before Mass in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, and the priest could barely speak English.

Now I don't want to seem cynical or angry. Its not that I'm angry as much as I am frustrated with (1) my inability to see past this and pray the Mass and receive the Blessed Sacrament in the right state of mind and (2) the lack of reverence for the Mass in this beautiful church. Over the previous two sundays I visited this beautiful little parish that offers both the TLM Mass and the NO Mass extremely reverently and beautifully. Why couldn't that parish have this beautiful building? Today, this gigantic church was practically empty, while that little parish is full to the brim and they are only two miles or so apart.

That church is beautiful. Over here, they tear down places like those and put up these ultra modern, mega structures in their place, talk about losing reverence.

The rest, always keep in mind, the pharasis wore all of the perfect garments, they did their ceremonies perfectly, they followed very iota of outward detail imaginable and did it all to a perfect t. It didn't get them anywhere though, and even if you are facing being the only one showing reverence, know there are others that are showing it, in their own parts of the world, just as you are, so you are not alone.

[quote="prodigalson12, post:2, topic:182552"]
That church is beautiful. Over here, they tear down places like those and put up these ultra modern, mega structures in their place, talk about losing reverence.

The rest, always keep in mind, the pharasis wore all of the perfect garments, they did their ceremonies perfectly, they followed very iota of outward detail imaginable and did it all to a perfect t. It didn't get them anywhere though, and even if you are facing being the only one showing reverence, know there are others that are showing it, in their own parts of the world, just as you are, so you are not alone.

[/quote]

Just a word of caution: the Pharisees were not priests and the ceremonies they conducted were not a part of the sacrificial cultic rites of Ancient Israel. The sacrifices offered at the temple were made by the priests, not the pharisees. As I read these threads, there seems to me to be a constant confusion about the Pharisees. They were not priests; in fact, they often did not agree with the priests of ancent Israel. What they did do was adopt priests practicies, such as ritual washings and such, and tried to impose these on the people.

That’s so sad. It’s a shame so many made Vatican II an excuse to ruin the beauty in architecture in so many churches. A lack of reverence, sadly…

[quote="mwscott, post:1, topic:182552"]
and the priest could barely speak English.

[/quote]

While your other points are certainly valid, the one quoted above is a tad uncharitable.

Ugh, I am so sorry you had this attitude at Mass… I was battling my own when I noticed that a transexual was an EMC this morning…

I just have to pop in and say "HI!"

I was baptized at Immaculate Conception Parish in Celina, OH and went to their Catholic School and attended Mass there until the 4th grade, when my family moved to Arizona.

Did you notice the sign that said the church was remodeled on the interior in 2006? I think that's the correct year. This last summer I visited and was a little disappointed, too, because it seemed they "modernized" the interior instead of allowing it to remain traditional. I can't really put my finger on the right word, but it does seem like it's not as reverent.

I did like the different artwork of the Mysteries of the Rosaries on the wall. And I did like the big baptismal font as soon as you enter. Those are new. And it seemed like the high alter had changed, or was re-painted. The big statue of the Pieta is the same, I'm glad they didn't get rid of that. But because of the re-arranging of the pews, the communion lines were confusing.

It did seem that the interior was a lot more beautiful before the remodel.

[quote="benedictgal, post:3, topic:182552"]
Just a word of caution: the Pharisees were not priests and the ceremonies they conducted were not a part of the sacrificial cultic rites of Ancient Israel. The sacrifices offered at the temple were made by the priests, not the pharisees. As I read these threads, there seems to me to be a constant confusion about the Pharisees. They were not priests; in fact, they often did not agree with the priests of ancent Israel. What they did do was adopt priests practicies, such as ritual washings and such, and tried to impose these on the people.

[/quote]

So then, are the people complaining about the priests the Pharisees?

Something to think about.

[quote="thomasf, post:8, topic:182552"]
So then, are the people complaining about the priests the Pharisees?

Something to think about.

[/quote]

All that I am saying is that people tend to have a misunderstanding of Jesus and his issue with the Pharisees. Folks also, as I read these threads, do not seem to quite understand just who the Pharisees were.

This weekend, we had a visiting priest from Mexico celebrarte the parish's last Mass of the day (Sunday, as in, yesterday). He did some rather ilicit things.

For one thing, he combined the offertory prayers for the bread and wine. Then, he substituted the words "amigos y amigas" for the official text "discipulos" for EP II, first for the consecration of the host and then for the consecration of the wine. During the Memorial, he added his own prayers and tried a bit of humor.

The other glaring "editing" of the Mass occurred after the recitation of the Pater Noster. Just prior to the Sign of Peace, when the prayer reads: "...look not on our sins, but, on the faith of your Church", he substituted it wholesale. He said: "look not on the sins of the bishops and priests, but, on the faith of your people". He even tacked words onto the Ecce Agnus Dei.

Y'all, the GIRM does not cease being applicable once a priest crosses the Rio Grande into another country. RS is not meant soley for the folks here in the United States. Unfortunately, what I experienced with this particular celebrant is par for the course for his brethren on this side. By this I mean that his fellow priests from the same order have a tendency to play fast and loose with the rubrics. We tried telling the bishop about this several times, but, to no avail. The next recourse is to write the Superior General of the Order and the CDWDS.

There was not a chance to speak to the priest after Mass, but, I did send a note to my parochial vicar.

\Also frustrating but not as serious was the terrible use of the organ (which was massive but sounded like a chapel organ, and the sad lack of vestments (the priest wore a very anemic stole over his chasuble and the deacon didn't even wear a stole let alone a dalmatic),\

**If he wasn't vested as a deacon, how do you know he WAS a Deacon?

It could be that if the Priest didn't speak much English he was having the (presumed) Deacon do presbyteral duties, which is illicit.

The sacristan MIGHT have been told to count the number of reserved hosts by the Priest.**

[quote="mwscott, post:1, topic:182552"]
I went to this parish today (another view) expecting to see this but instead I was very sad to see this.

Now that photo is not that disappointing. It would seem from that photo (taken by someone else outside the Christmas season) that a Mass could be said very reverently versus populum there.* Instead, the sacred vessels were glass, the deacon self communicated and gave the final blessing, the priest and deacon gave blessings in the communion line, and the sacristan spent a good two minutes before the open tabernacle before Mass counting Hosts.* Also frustrating but not as serious was the terrible use of the organ (which was massive but sounded like a chapel organ, and the sad lack of vestments (the priest wore a very anemic stole over his chasuble and the deacon didn't even wear a stole let alone a dalmatic), the incredible amount of talking before Mass in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, and the priest could barely speak English.

Now I don't want to seem cynical or angry. Its not that I'm angry as much as I am frustrated with (1) my inability to see past this and pray the Mass and receive the Blessed Sacrament in the right state of mind and (2) the lack of reverence for the Mass in this beautiful church. Over the previous two sundays I visited this beautiful little parish that offers both the TLM Mass and the NO Mass extremely reverently and beautifully. Why couldn't that parish have this beautiful building? Today, this gigantic church was practically empty, while that little parish is full to the brim and they are only two miles or so apart.

[/quote]

"You have so many gifts. Why can't you be more like your brother? He does so much more with so much less..."

Even when we have the office of correction, it needs a certain spirit to be profitable. We also have to ask ourselves how much of the situation is about us.

I guess this falls under the same category as learning to be thankful for relatives that love us, even though they have some serious failings. As long as it is not abuse, we hang in there and try to find affection for them in their failings as we know they do for us in ours. When it is abusive, we put some distance between us and pray for their amendment, offering correction with gentleness and humility when and if that is appropriate. Otherwise, well, God bless Uncle Ed and Aunt Freda, but no one blames us for avoiding a house full of yelling and cigarette smoke, as long as our aunt and uncle are not being ignored in their time of need because of faults they are unaware of. For them as for us, though, we are thankful, because, as the poet put it: "Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to take you." Thank goodness so many places let us walk in and call it home!

When we go to another parish, we don't go as consumers, but as relatives. That spirit makes it a little easier to take the cooking. Even when it is truly awful, it is hospitality, something to be thankful for, even as we hope not to have to accept it too often!

[quote="bpbasilphx, post:10, topic:182552"]
\Also frustrating but not as serious was the terrible use of the organ (which was massive but sounded like a chapel organ, and the sad lack of vestments (the priest wore a very anemic stole over his chasuble and the deacon didn't even wear a stole let alone a dalmatic),\

**If he wasn't vested as a deacon, how do you know he WAS a Deacon?

It could be that if the Priest didn't speak much English he was having the (presumed) Deacon do presbyteral duties, which is illicit.

The sacristan MIGHT have been told to count the number of reserved hosts by the Priest.**

[/quote]

A person stood at the ambo before Mass and announced the name of the presider and deacons and made some announcements. Also, before the deacon gave the "blessing" at the end of Mass the priest said, "And now deacon so-and-so will give the blessing," as if he was being charitable in allowing the deacon to bless us.

As far as the hosts thing goes. I am actually not sure as to the best way to go about "counting hosts." I certainly think that the priest should be the one to do it if it must be done. I also think that there should be a rough estimate in mind before approaching the tabernacle so the counter does not have to stand there for several minutes to count the hosts. Afterall, Vatican II mentions that enough hosts should be consecrated at Mass so that all in attendance can receive from Hosts consecrated at that Mass. What is in the tabernacle should be for emergency shortages at Mass and for the homebound.

However, I don't want to be uncharitable to the sacristan. If the priest told her to do it she only has two choices: (1) count the Hosts, or (2) speak to the priest about it. The second option, of course, is hard for a lot of people to do so I certainly am not placing judgement on her.

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