Universal approval of Latin Missal could be on the way

Universal approval of Latin Missal could be on the way

Vatican City, Mar. 31, 2006 (CNA) - The St. Pius V Missal, which the Catholic Church used until 1962 before it was replaced by the new ordinary following the liturgical reforms of Vatican II, could be approved for universal use, according to sources close to the Vatican.

The decision on the use of the Missal, which was the subject of consultations between Pope
Benedict XVI, the cardinals of the Church and the heads of the different Vatican diacasteries, could be announced after another meeting the Pope has scheduled for April 7 with Curia leaders.

The Pius V Missal contains the Mass celebrated in Latin according to the “Tridentine” rite and is currently allowed only with the permission of the local bishop. Universal approval would mean the traditional rite could be celebrated freely throughout the world by priests who wish to do so.

The move is not directly related to the Lefebvrist schism, since as a theologian the Pontiff had always expressed in interest in bringing back the rite. Nevertheless, Vatican sources note that this would be an important step in resolving the schism, as the possibility of freely celebrating the Mass of St Pius V is one of the points of contention with the Lefebvrists.

In July, the Society of St. Pius X—known as the Lefebvrists—will elect a new superior. The group will chose between openness to reconciliation embodied in the current superior Bernard Fellay or the decidedly anti-Vatican stance of Richard Williamson, another of the four bishops illicitly consecrated by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=6374

Laus Deo!!

Do you think that each parish would still have to have a Novus Ordo Missae every week, or could parishes whose architecture suits it choose to just become exclusively tridentine parishes?

What I would like to see, and I think it would help the reconcilliation with the SSPX too, is for the Latin Church to become bi-ritual. Well, “bi-ritual” is sort of a misnomer, it already has several usages permitted: ambrosian, moazorbic, novus ordo, tridentine indult etc.

But I mean that each parish can choose which it will celebrate exclusively (some might be allowed to offer both) and so the Tridentine Rite will be restored alongside the Novus Ordo as more than just a “museum piece” as it were. Some parishes or priests could restore their whole liturgical life to the tridentine way. Not just Mass, but all the sacraments, the liturgy of the hours, etc…without restricting it to indults or groups specially designed for the old rite (like the FSSP, etc)

Its the best we can hope for, I think. Ideally, I would split up the Latin Rite like the Eastern Rites into several smaller sui juris churches…an Ambrosian Catholic Church in Milan, an Anglican Catholic Church for the English or reunified Anglicans, with a seperate novus ordo and Tridentine hierarchy parallel to each other…with the Pope as Patriarch of the whole latin rite still, but specifically the metropolitan of the sui juris tridentine church. And I’d have the religious orders return to their unique liturgies.

Sadly, I don’t think we will ever see the official liturgy of the Vatican returned to its grand old ways, or even the liturgies of the ordination of bishops or those things usually celebrated on a higher level (diocesan, national, rite)…but on the local parish level, I think we could hope for a significant establishment of tridentine rite parishes along side novus ordo parishes under the same hiearchy in a bi-ritual latin rite church.

I’m looking forward to see this new missal!

I think it is AWESOME!

I would really like to see a universal indult for the Tridentine Mass, and I believe it will happen someday, but I question the reliability of this article when they say things like they think they know them- but they get some historical facts wrong…

[quote=batteddy]Do you think that each parish would still have to have a Novus Ordo Missae every week, or could parishes whose architecture suits it choose to just become exclusively tridentine parishes?
[/quote]

The parish I belong to could easily be converted. Some of the close by parishes. Maybe.

PF

We’ll have to see… Every few months there seem to be threads just like this one, based on speculation that a change is coming. It never seems to arrive.

Could a TLM mass be celebrated on a Novus Ordo altar? What if one has the priest face ad orientum on the NO altar. Could the Tridentine rite be done in that way?

Deo Gratias!

[quote=MulusChristi]We’ll have to see… Every few months there seem to be threads just like this one, based on speculation that a change is coming. It never seems to arrive.

Could a TLM mass be celebrated on a Novus Ordo altar? What if one has the priest face ad orientum on the NO altar. Could the Tridentine rite be done in that way?
[/quote]

At my parish they have what is called a “dual use altar”. They had it installed so that they could do a versus populum NO mass and an ad orientem Dominican Rite mass (and the pastor had it installed to future proof ad orientem being allowed universally, which Fr expects B16 to do)

I have recently started attending the Latin Mass. I know that I am in the right place. I don’t even have trouble getting up in the morn to go. The Mass is so beautiful. I have also read, forgive me I don’t have the link it is on Vatican website, that Pope Benedict wants other prayer books done with Latin and english so that all of us that haven’t a clue what is being said can learn latin. Yeah!
This probably isn’t the right place to ask but how do I put the smilies on the posts when I do them?

I believe this is not just another rumor because I’ve heard Cardinal Ratzinger before he became Pope indicate that the old Rite was still valid, etc. Perhaps there is some recognition that the bishops have failed to “generously” grant the indult since it has been a decision left to them. (I also believe that the recent decision by the bishop in my diocese to permit 2 measly TLM Masses is partly prompted by the fact that this “universal” indult is coming.) If and when there is a universal indult, I think it will take some training on the part of priests who are interested in offering it and there will be many priests who will choose not to. I can’t imagine my pastor doing so, for example, as he’s never so much as initiated a Latin Agnus Dei or Sanctus at the Novus Ordo masses that he celebrates. I don’t think he is well versed in Latin and I suspect that is true of many priests of a certain age.

At my parish they have what is called a “dual use altar”. They had it installed so that they could do a versus populum NO mass and an ad orientem Dominican Rite mass (and the pastor had it installed to future proof ad orientem being allowed universally, which Fr expects B16 to do)

you must be talking about holy rosary in portland. that’s a awesome parish. whenever i’m in town i go there. they have a fantastic choir too. i hear st. patricks is nice. normally though i go to the cathedral, which i think is nice too.

i’m a little skeptical about this universal indult. i think more likely he will delegate it to the bishops and dissolve the ecclesia dei organization in rome. i don’t think he’ll say that a bishop can’t not allow it, for better or worse i’m not sure.

[quote=oat soda]you must be talking about holy rosary in portland. that’s a awesome parish. whenever i’m in town i go there. they have a fantastic choir too. i hear st. patricks is nice. normally though i go to the cathedral, which i think is nice too.

i’m a little skeptical about this universal indult. i think more likely he will delegate it to the bishops and dissolve the ecclesia dei organization in rome. i don’t think he’ll say that a bishop can’t not allow it, for better or worse i’m not sure.
[/quote]

Yes, it is Holy Rosary.

I am not skeptical about B16 allowing ad orientem without the local bishop’s approval. B16 has been quite adamant for decades that the ad orientem posture was of apostolic origin and should not have been discarded. But, maybe I am just being hopeful.

[quote=arieh0310]Yes, it is Holy Rosary.

I am not skeptical about B16 allowing ad orientem without the local bishop’s approval. B16 has been quite adamant for decades that the ad orientem posture was of apostolic origin and should not have been discarded. But, maybe I am just being hopeful.
[/quote]

TLM issue aside, I didn’t think there was any current prohibition against the ad orientem posture. I believe someone pointed this out based on the wording in the current missal.

[quote=Confiteor]TLM issue aside, I didn’t think there was any current prohibition against the ad orientem posture. I believe someone pointed this out based on the wording in the current missal.
[/quote]

I don’t know if there truly is a prohibition against the ad orientem posture, but our pastor was told by the bishop, in no uncertain terms, that ad orientem would not be allowed in the NO mass. The only time our parish can celebrate mass ad orientem is when they do a Dominican Rite mass.

[quote=robins]This probably isn’t the right place to ask but how do I put the smilies on the posts when I do them?
[/quote]

:hmmm: When you post a message, above the area where you type, you should see a smiley along with a bunch of other editing tools. If you click on the smiling face (or the little upside-down triangle next to it), you should be presented with a list of smileys to choose from. :yup:

I like this news. It will be interesting to see it happen. However, I doubt it will bring the SSPX back into communion without a couple of changes to the Novus Ordo as well as other things.

Honestly they are minor and from what I am hearing on the re-doing of the translation, it may just be what tips the scales. Here are what I think would need to happen for the SSPX to come back into communion.

  1. Change the english of For All back to For Many in the NO
  2. Go back to a single Canon for the Liturgy of the Eucharist with a single Eucharist prayer in the NO
  3. Reinstate the older rites of oridinations for deacons/priests and for the consecration of bishops as the ONLY rites for those events.
  4. Declare the excommunications of LeFebvre and the Bishops that were consecrated under him null and void.

Now granted if the news from the Original Post comes to fruition, you may have many abandon the SSPX and go back to Rome, but if the SSPX just goes back into communion, you will see many abandon the SSPX and join up with groups like the SSPV.

I look forward to seeing the outcome of this.

This is the best news I have read all day! :thumbsup: I only ever saw the Traditional Latin rite Mass for the first time back in September of last year. Like one of the posters after the article, I could not believe the Church set this axiomatic liturgy aside back in the '60s for what is currently the normative rite. I have been worshipping in the TLM for several months now and haven’t looked back. There is no question in my mind that the Mass of all time should be applied far more widely and generously than it currently is, and this article gives me even more hope that it will be in the future. *Deo gratias! * :slight_smile:

told by the bishop, in no uncertain terms, that ad orientem would not be allowed in the NO mass. The only time our parish can celebrate mass ad orientem is when they do a Dominican Rite mass.

i think vlazny is a good man but he’s been beat down by secularisim, especially in the NW. keep him in your prayers.

it’s ridiculous that any bishop would mandate that mass be only celebrated versus populum. i think this was addressed by a congregation, that no posture should be absolutized. but, this is certainly within the bishop’s authority and is why i don’t expect too many bishops to allow the tridentine mass even if it’s given a universal indult.

[quote=oat soda]i think vlazny is a good man but he’s been beat down by secularisim, especially in the NW. keep him in your prayers.

[/quote]

I think he is a good man too (he goes to pro-life rallies and tells supporters of abortion that they shouldn’t receive Communion) but I think he is a tad progressive in his liturgical preferences. I pray for him every day, he has a tough job in this archdiocese.

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