Universal Indult


#1

There has been much talk about the possibility of a universal indult to celebrate the Mass according to the rubrics of 1962 (often called the Tridentine Mass). It seems to me that there would be many advantages to such an indult.

In my opinion, the most compelling reason would be bringing members of the SSPX, sedevacantists, and other schismatics back into the Church. According to the SSPX’s website, the organization claims 50 priests and 61 seminarians in America and over 350 worldwide. There are also countless laymen, most just pious people preferring the Traditional Latin Mass, being led astray by this schismatic society.

Furthermore, there seems to be a genuine desire in the Church for “a wide and generous application of the … Roman Missal according to the typical edition of 1962.” Our parish priest is one of two within our diocese granted an indult, and every Sunday our parish is packed with people who have travelled miles to worship at the Traditional Latin Mass. From what I hear, our bishop is very kind to allow even two priests in the entire state to celebrate the Tridentine Mass–many do not give any indults at all.

I’ll be the first one to say that I’m biased towards the TLM. I’ll also be the first one to say that I’m not a schismatic, a sedevantist, or a “RadTrad”; I just love the Mass of our Fathers! A universal indult just seems to make *sense *to me. What does everyone else think about this possibility?


#2

I think the greatest fear that most bishops have over granting the Indult would be the loss of the wonderful gifts the Novus Ordo Mass has brought to the Church. The fact that it is in the vernacular makes it infinitely more accessible to the average Catholic. The fact that the priest now faces the congregation highlights his ministry (as well as provides several practical benefits), and the expanded Liturgy of the Word brings more Scripture to Catholics than ever before.

That having been said, I would love to have a Tridentine Mass available somewhere in my archdiocese. I was born in 1983, and have never even attended one. I feel like I am missing out on so much tradition and beauty. I think it was a mistake to completely forget the Old Mass. And as far as I’m concerned, the more Latin, the better :thumbsup:

But I don’t know if a universal indult would be the way to go. I wouldn’t want to lose the gifts of the Novus Ordo either. They are both, in my opinion, wonderful ways of participating in Christ’s most Holy Sacrifice.


#3

Rather than an indult, I would like to see the vatican create a tridentine rite that would be wholly separate from the latin rite. I think that this would be far less confusing than having two separate “latin rite” masses that can be said. This would also allow the SSPX and other groups to operate under separate jurisdiction than the diocesan priests.

Just a thought…


#4

I’m all for bringing schismatics back into the Church, but I’d be wary of creating their own little bubble to exist in. The last thing the Church needs right now is more division. Besides, the addition of another rite would likely convince a different group to break off, claiming that the New Old Rite or whatever it would be called is invalid.


#5

There has been much talk about the possibility of a universal indult to celebrate the Mass according to the rubrics of 1962 (often called the Tridentine Mass). It seems to me that there would be many advantages to such an indult.

Though I support the idea, I don’t think its going to happen any time soon. They just had talks in Rome and declined this universal indult (which is really an oxymoron; if every priest is granted the privilege of the Tridentine Mass why the word “indult”) when the SSPX requested it as a condition for “coming back”.

I really don’t buy the argument that this will create some sort of “high” and “low” church like the Anglicans and separate the Catholic faithful into fractions; they should have thought of that when they decided to introduce a totally new rite in the 60’s. The Church has always welcomed all rites and she has given us both and tolerates both (albeit not all bishops are so tolerant in this area). So, according to our Holy Father in Ecclesia Dei, the laities “rightful aspirations” should be heard and there should be a “wide and generous” application of the Tridentine. A “universal indult” will allow that.

Miguel.


#6

A universal indult would not make the TLM mandatory, just more widely available. It would just mean that there is a blanket permission to do it rather than leaving it to the discretion of the diocese. IMHO, I think it’s great. I’ve been reading and hearing that EVERYWHERE the TLM is allowed to be used, those parishes are packed out! And alot of them are 20 and 30 somethings. I believe that the uniformity and single-mindedness that the TLM brought to the Church is what so many are longing for, especially in light of the liturgical abuses of today. I think if anything the Norvus Ordo has CAUSED division, I mean when did you ever look in the phone book before 1965 and see Vietnamese, Japanese, Philippino parishes under Catholic parish listings? The TLM brought us all together under a universal and holy tongue, masses of incredible structure and uniformity, and a true sense of identity for what it means to be Catholic! I won’t say that Vatican II was wrong, there was so much wisdom that came from it, but in matters of its practical application at the Diocese and Parish level, especially concering the Liturgy, things have gone escew


#7

I know that it wouldn’t make TLM mandatory, but by your own admission many, many people who have it available only go to the Latin Mass. Of their own accord, they leave some of the wonderful things about the Novus Ordo. That’s why I would say that a more limited indult would be better, but it should be available in every diocese.


#8

[quote=Dr. Colossus]I know that it wouldn’t make TLM mandatory, but by your own admission many, many people who have it available only go to the Latin Mass. Of their own accord, they leave some of the wonderful things about the Novus Ordo. That’s why I would say that a more limited indult would be better, but it should be available in every diocese.
[/quote]

I understand your point. I’m not sure if they “only” go to the Latin mass. We are fortunate enough here to have a Tridentine chapel in our area and I don’t go there for every mass, but try to go once a month and especially Easter! The High Sung Easter mass is incomparable IMHO… Have you been Doc?


#9

[size=3]I agree that there ought to be a universal indult or a separate Tridentine rite. Many bishops are too fearful to allow the Tridentine Mass. Or, if they do allow it, it is often at inconvenient times at churches not centrally located. Hence, with an indult or separate rite, the decision whether or not to have a Tridentine Mass would not depend wholly on the personal preference of individual bishops.

I advocate for the Tridentine Mass because of its reverence, beauty, and strong doctrinal content. Further, I think its formalism appeals to men (and perhaps women as well).

I also think the Tridentine Mass can be used to attract vocations and help inculcate a strong belief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist.

I do not believe the Novus Ordo Missae has borne wonderful fruits. I do not believe it is mere coincidence that since its introduction Mass attendance has plummeted and fewer Catholics than ever believe in the Real Presence. For a couple of good, solid, orthodox articles on the Tridentine Mass, along with some good comparisons with the Novus Ordo Missae, see the following articles:

"Novus ordo Missae: The record after thirty years"
By Dr. James Lothian
Homiletic & Pastoral Review, October of 2000

[/size][/font]http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Homiletic/2000-10/lothian.html

"The Case for the Latin Mass"
by Dietrich von Hildebrand

[/font]http://www.latin-mass-society.org/dietrich.htm

God bless!


#10

I worry that a universal indult would just open the Tridentine Mass to the many abuses that already plague the Bogus–I mean, Novus!–Ordo.

Familiarity breeds contempt.


#11

The High Sung Easter mass is incomparable IMHO… Have you been Doc?

Unfortunately, no, as I stated previously I have never attended a Tridentine Mass :frowning: . I wish I could attend the Latin Mass, but unfortunately my diocese does not allow it. Even still, prudentially I would be wary of shifting focus too much to one side. I love the Novus Ordo (properly celebrated, of course). I know that there are many good things that have come out of it. I also wholeheartedly support bringing the Indult to parishes that do not have it. But I would hate to see good, orthodox Catholics divided over which Mass is “better”.


#12

Further, I think a separate “Church” for the Tridentine Rite would just be rediculous.

There’s much, much more to a sui iuris Church (like the 22 Eastern Churches) than preference or a particular form of worship. There’s a whole theological tradition and patrimony that goes along with it, a whole other spirituality, way of believing and worshipping and relating to the Catholic faith.

What would a seperate “Tridentine Catholic Church” signify? That Papal Rome truly has lost the Catholic faith, and the Roman spirituality that its fostered for the past 2000 years?

The Roman Mass is the Roman Mass is the Roman Mass. I agree that the current Missal leaves much to be desired (i.e. all the variations allowed); but what we should be working toward is a reform of the reform, not a division of the Catholic Church into “High” and “Low” Church Catholics, such as Anglicanism has long had.

The indult is a temporary provision, not an end-all.


#13

Good points, [/font]Tboy4Christ. Well said. I’ve thought also about how parishioners automatically get separated according to language when the vernacular is used, whereas with the Latin Mass, people are actually brought together because Latin does not cause division based on language.


#14

TBOY:

Although I myself am a devotee of the Traditional Mass, I find the Novus Ordo Easter Vigil to be far more beautiful, incorporating as it does the baptism, confirmation, and reception of converts. I attended Clear Creek Monastery in Oklahoma for Holy Week and Easter, and experienced the Solemn High Easter rites; while beautiful, the absence of these ceremonies, faithfully restored to the Roman rite, where they belonged, really do a lot to enhance and actually complete the ceremonies.

We really should give the New Missal credit where it is due.


#15

Good points, Tboy4Christ. Well said. I’ve thought also about how parishioners automatically get separated according to language when the vernacular is used, whereas with the Latin Mass, people are actually brought together because Latin does not cause division based on language.

I agree. Especially because I live in South Florida. The cultural and lingustic divides between the faithful here could easily be bridged by the inclusion of Latin into our Masses.


#16

We really should give the New Missal credit where it is due.

That’s all I’ve been saying. So long as we do that, bring on the TLM!! :thumbsup:


#17

[quote=Dr. Colossus]I think the greatest fear that most bishops have over granting the Indult would be the loss of the wonderful gifts the Novus Ordo Mass has brought to the Church.
[/quote]

I have heard many people mention this before and, to be frank, this has never made sense to me. With a universal indult no priest would ever be required to celebrate the Tridentine Mass. Just as there are many people who prefer the Traditional Latin Mass, there are many people–among the laity and the priests–who prefer the Novus Ordo. I agree that it would be disastrous if the Church was polarized into “high” Catholics and “low” Catholics, similar to the Anglicans, but I do not see that happening. Furthermore, if that were to happen, it would pale in comparison to the gravity of the current schism.

[quote=Dr. Colossus]The fact that it is in the vernacular makes it infinitely more accessible to the average Catholic.
[/quote]

First, one must remember that in the Tridentine Mass both the readings, 1st Gospel, and the homily are read in the vernacular. The use of Latin also encouraged the laity to use misalettes. I have found that when I use a misalette during Mass I am able to read, think, and pray the words of the priest in an extraordinary way. While having the entire Mass in the vernacular may make it more accessible, it comes at a high cost. When the Mass is in Latin, the fact that the Mass is mystical, incredible, and infinitely out of the ordinary is emphasized. We have all seen (all too often!) individuals who, when they attend a Mass in the vernacular, do not truly worship because they have lost their sense of awe and wonder at the Sacrifice of Calvary.

[quote=Dr. Colossus]The fact that the priest now faces the congregation highlights his ministry (as well as provides several practical benefits), and the expanded Liturgy of the Word brings more Scripture to Catholics than ever before.
[/quote]

Here I am afraid that I must respectfully disagree with you. When a priest celebrates Mass *versus populam *or ad orientam he emphasizes different aspects of the Mass. When the priest faces the people, he shows that the Mass is a communal meal. If the priest faces with the people towards the altar, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is emphasized. I would argue that in this era of (in some circles) affirming everyone in his or her OK-ness, the fact that the Mass is a sacrifice–the final and eternal sacrifice–should be proclaimed to all. It is also my opinion that a Mass celebrated ad orientam shows a unity between the priest and people and places the visual focus entirely on God. As to the Liturgy of the Word, it is not really “expanded” as much as “changed”; in the Novus Ordo there are two readings and a Gospel reading, whereas in the Tridentine there is one reading and two Gospel readings.

[quote=Dr. Colossus]That having been said, I would love to have a Tridentine Mass available somewhere in my archdiocese. I was born in 1983, and have never even attended one. I feel like I am missing out on so much tradition and beauty. I think it was a mistake to completely forget the Old Mass. And as far as I’m concerned, the more Latin, the better :thumbsup:

But I don’t know if a universal indult would be the way to go. I wouldn’t want to lose the gifts of the Novus Ordo either. They are both, in my opinion, wonderful ways of participating in Christ’s most Holy Sacrifice.
[/quote]

Come down to Charleston for vacation and visit my parish! :smiley: I was born in 1988 and I, too, regret that so many have never had the opportunity to participate in the Tridentine Mass. However, I would never advocate the abandonment of the Novus Ordo under any circumstances! You are correct when you speak of the many benefits and advantages of the Novus Ordo, yet the Old Mass has equal, complimentary benefits.

Granted, a universal indult is not the ideal solution, but it is the best I have seen. In Ecclesia Dei, Pope John Paul II called for “a wide and generous application of the directives already issued some time ago by the Apostolic See for the use of the Roman Missal according to the typical edition of 1962.” If every bishop granted indults liberally and this beautiful form of the Mass was widespread and open to all who desire it, this would not be an issue. But alas and alack, it is not so.

Thanks for your feedback! :thumbsup:


#18

First, one must remember that in the Tridentine Mass both the readings, 1st Gospel, and the homily are read in the vernacular.

Only if the priest feels like doing so. :rolleyes:


#19

Granted, a universal indult is not the ideal solution, but it is the best I have seen.

You’re probably right. I don’t want to make the “not the right time” argument. I would welcome the universal indult as a step in the right direction (but probably not the best step). But I can also see why it has not been granted yet. I think the pros and cons of such a move would have to be weighed by church leaders, who are hopefully far wiser than myself.


#20

[quote=DominvsVobiscvm]Only if the priest feels like doing so. :rolleyes:
[/quote]

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! :o That was an oversight of mine to forget to mention that, but truthfully, how many priests have you met who don’t either re-read in the vernacular or provide the readings and proper Gospel in a tri-fold? :wink:


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.