Update


#1

Since a lot of people are taking my questioning and searching and debating due to my confusion in the wrong light, I thought I’d let you all know about where my situation is now:

You all know that I am having problems with the teachings, especially in the subject masturbation.

Basically it’s because of situations at home with my wife’s drive being so much lower than mine.

I’m not going to try to explain or justify anything here, I’m sure you all know about the specifics. (I may touch on some points later). Please don’t mistake my searching and questioning for trying to deceive others. I’m desperately trying to make sense of this in my mind.

So, here it is:
I’m planning on confession tomorrow morning, not for any specific sin, but more just for my sorrow for questioning the Church. I’m sure that questioning is allowed, but I do want to show the Lord that I love Him and that I’m just trying to understand the teachings that I’m struggling with.
Depending on the prompting of the priest in the confessional, I may explore the issue with him, but that’s not why I’m going.

I’m not actively engaging in masturbation at this time and haven’t (except one stumble) since I kicked the habit when I converted.

My wife is very, very happy with our marriage and profess this to me and various other family members.
I love my wife dearly and I think she is a wonderful person. I want to be with her until the day I die.

The only issue that we have in our marriage, is that she can’t understand our difference in libidos. After many, many discussions, talks, fights, trying different tactics, reasonings, suggestions, etc, she still can’t understand that it’s an issue. She is ignoring it and forgets about it soon after we talk. She is blissfully happy with our marriage.
I am going to stop talking about this issue with her. It leads to confrontation and arguing and any approach have been proven to be ineffective anyway.

I’m just going to go about my business and pray and hope that this gets better with time.

Many of you know that she is pregnant. The elusive Second Trimester “honeymoon phase” has not happened. She is still extremely sick and fatigued most of the time, so the opportunity to mend the libido thing, has not happened either.
I can see this thing staying the same for quite a while to come, we will most probably not be intimate at all until the birth. After the birth, with the new arrival, I cannot see how much intimacy there will be in that time either (this is normal and understandable), and when things are stabilized, we will be practicing NFP again, and the original problem of low libido/lack of intimacy will be back.

This is not about me wanting sex like some starved animal - please understand this. If that was the case I’d be masturbating already. The core of this issue is me wanting to be intimate with my wife. I want to share myself with her sexually, and I want her to share herself with me.
For my wife not to engage in sexual intimacy with me, gives me the feeling that she doesn’t find me attractive (subjective). She doesn’t yearn for me like I do for her. It makes me feel un-loved and unwanted.
This may not be true for all men, but it is certainly how I perceive the situation. I say “perceive”, since I know that she loves me. Intellectually, I know this, but my soul still yearns to become one with her. I married her, I love her and I want to show her that and I want her to show me that too, in the way that I want. I show her that in all her ways.

Anyway, this is where I am. On my way to confession and resigned in my situation.

I can’t say that I have resolved anything since this problem started, all the great advice I received here I have applied and I’m still where I started. You can understand why I started questioning. The tools I was given didn’t work at all…

Anyway, this post is not a debate, it’s just an update on where I am right now and a small justification to why I have been posting the way I have.
I’ll try to be less aggressive in my posts, I really will. Be assured that I’m really trying to get to understand this and I really hope that I can reconcile this teaching in my mind…but frustration sets in from time to time.

Thank you.


#2

My prayers for you, PM. A moving post.

mp


#3

PM,

I know that you and I disagree on several points, but I hope that I have done so (for my part) in a charitable way. If not, I humbly apologize. I know your struggles, I have followed your story and am touched by your honesty in this post! I am truly inspired by you and your dedication first and foremost to our faith and to our God. Secondly your love for your wife. I did not decided to respond to you to offer advice in any way, just to say that you are an amazing man and deserve to be happy. I pray that you will be soon, ending all of the struggles.

God bless!

MM


#4

PM… you are in my prayers…
I do see your struggle and I see your determination to deal with it in a loving manner and your honesty is very heartfelt…

Prayers are coming…


#5

Thank you MM.

No, you have not offended me. In fact, I’m not upset at anyone here, the times people were harsh, probably I needed that.

I think I owe it to you guys to give y’all an update and also, I wanted to explain a bit about my situation and my state of mind, just in case my posts got too emotional.

In Christ,
PM


#6

PM, :thumbsup:
That was one of the most honest and moving letters I’ve seen on the board here. Thank you for clarifying so well where your head and heart truly are. I personally apologize if I was harsh with you and gave you any cybersmacks you didn’t deserve. Sorry. :frowning:

May I suggest you write this out for your wife and if the subject ever comes up again, you give this to her. Of course, change it so it doesn’t sound like you are talking about her, but talking to her.

The core of this issue is me wanting to be intimate with my wife. I want to share myself with her sexually, and I want her to share herself with me.
For my wife not to engage in sexual intimacy with me, gives me the feeling that she doesn’t find me attractive (subjective). She doesn’t yearn for me like I do for her. It makes me feel un-loved and unwanted.
This may not be true for all men, but it is certainly how I perceive the situation. I say “perceive”, since I know that she loves me. Intellectually, I know this, but my soul still yearns to become one with her. I married her, I love her and I want to show her that and I want her to show me that too, in the way that I want. I show her that in all her ways.

I hope she becomes more aware of how her behavior is hurting the marriage. And I will pray for you that your continuing on the path of virtue will help sanctify yourself and your whole family. Good luck.


#7

Hi there Liberanosamalo.

Like I said, no appologies necsesarry, it’s all good. Thanks for the well wishes.

In Christ,
PM


#8

I’ve just read your post and about your struggle for the first time…

I just want to let you know that you are by no means the only man struggling in this way. I sure know that I (and my wife) have struggled with this for years and years and years. And frankly, with little relief in sight…though now, just now, there is a slight glow at the end of this very long and dark tunnel (though I don’t know if that’s just because the ole libido is beginning to die with age…if so, thank God, and Viagra, no thanks).

Its my belief that countless married couples of good faith struggle with this…and often fail…and it leads to all kinds of questions and bitterness.

Well, that’s not really comforting, I know, but hang in there.

My only thought is that somehow we have to see this desire as an icon or a window onto our true desire for the infinite, for God, for full and true union/communion. And thus, when we experience the desire for intimacy or just the “urge to merge”, even if it’s just plain old lust, we can see it as a place of “nothingness” or “nihilo” as in “God created ex nihilo” and meet God there and allow him to do his work of creation…


#9

PMan,
So grateful for the update. I love watching you defending chastity to others on CAF! Even if you don’t completely understand it, you sure have learned how to defend it!

You know I’ve been praying for you. After reading this post, I will be praying for your wife, that perhaps the Lord will soften her heart a bit.

God bless.


#10

You are a wise man.

Many couples deal with this very issue often. There seems to be a disconnect in the drives, especially when stress is in the picture through kids, illness, work, etc. and it causes many a marital bliss issue.

Continue to be patient, loving, caring, and respectful as you are. Communicate often. Perhaps some of those Christopher West books or theology of the body/marriage books can be discussed with the wife lovingly?

In any case, your patience and sacrifice are admirable. Be strong and trust in your faith to lead you both to a lasting love.


#11

So, I went to confession yesterday, feeling all good about this…then last night my wife and I started talking about pregnancy.

She is really suffers with being pregnant…not life threatening, but physically it’s really rough.

Anyway, we start talking about pregnancy and she says that she definately don’t want to be pregnant again.
Here’s what she said:
“I don’t want to scare you, but after this baby is born, I don’t think we will have sex again, ever. We will have to start thinking about how to deal with the next 30 to 50 years of abstinence.”
:eek:
I was so shocked, I didn’t know what to say, so I just kept on saying that we should go speak to a priest about this. She seemed to agree to this tentatively.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Another curveball.

Anyway, just another update.
PM


#12

:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:

I am praying hard that this comment was made in the midst of crazy pregnancy hormones, and that immediately after the baby’s birth, she turns to you and says, “Honey, can we have 11 or 12 more??? PLEASE???”


#13

I’ll say a prayer for you. Your wife really needs to agree to counselling. Don’t give up on that.

God Bless


#14

Definitely do have her talk to a priest. He will advise her that she is not being open to life and doesn’t seem to understand vocation. You are in my prayers.


#15

Many women (and men) during difficult pregnancies and deliveries say they don’t want any more children. Then they experience a few weeks of complete life change and adjustment. They say absolutely no more children. Then the little cherub says “ma ma ma ma” with her arms in the air. The pain is soon forgotten and a new baby begins. :wink:


#16

She was pretty darn serious about it.

Also, this is our second child, so she is familiar with the “cherub-factor”.

The pregnancy was also unplanned - NFP Failure. And even though she is excited about the baby, she was very serious.


#17

PM, how old is she? I mean, eventually she will hit menopause. So we’re not talking 50 years here.

But before that, I would say there is NO NFP failure. Really. It’s called Couple Failure, or sloppy charting failure. Or wishful thinking failure. I suggest you both talk to a Couple to Couple League counselor and really make sure you know the Sympto-thermal method and all its cross-checks. If you were charting, I’m sure they could tell you where things went wrong. But if you have serious need to avoid pregnancy, the most conservative rules work very well and allow for conjugal relations several times a month.


#18

I really think PM had a true method failure, if I remember his story correctly. They were being extremely conservative, and NFP isn’t 100%, even with perfect use. :smiley:


#19

She is 29.

We do charting together. We pinpointed ovulation to the day, with monitoring of the mucus, as well as more personal sugns that follow ovulation in my wife, like headaches, etc. We KNOW when she ovulated.

We waited about 8 days after that day before we were intimate. There is no explination. We took the chart to our family doctor who knows about NFP, who also said that he couldn’t explain it.

[EDIT]

Even folks here confirmed it as a genuine NFP failure.


#20

Did you cross check that with temps using the Sympto-thermal method? I don’t want to start a method war, but mucous-only can be a problem if one has long cycles or deceptive mucous patterns. You can have a cycle with surefire CM/and other signs but if you don’t have the full thermal shift, you cannot assume you are in the infertile time. No matter how many days after the day you are SURE she ovulated.

I know there is a small case of failure. But if there is an alternate NFP method you can use that might help, give it a try!


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