URGENT: chalenge the anticatholics with this


#1

DEAR FRIENDS:

WHEN SOMEONE IN THE INTERNET ATACKS YOU WITH THE SAME OLD THINGS (IDOL WORSHIPERS, MARY IS NOT A GODDESS ETC ETC.) AND BLAST YOU WITH A LOT OF BIBLE PASSAGES, INSTEAD OF GIVING SOME PASSAGES BACK DO THIS (IT HAS WORKS WONDERS FOR ME)

GIVE SOME CATHOLIC SITES (IF YOU HAD SOME SITE WITH THE CATHESISM THAT WILL BE EXCELLENT) TO HIM AND CHALENGE HIM/HER* TO FIND WHAT HE IS SAYING IN THAT VERY PAGES. *
PLEASE USE IT, ITS GREAT (SO FAR OUT OF 5 NO ONE CAN COME UP WITH AN ANSWER)


#2

Alright, thanks. I will use that next time something like that comes up. :thumbsup:


#3

Good idea. Thanks for the tip :thumbsup:


#4

Excellent! “Go read the Catechism and get back to me with what you don’t understand” sort of thing. If they really care about what Catholics believe (instead of just trying to bash us) then they will do this. If not, then why should we sit there and let ourselves be bashed? I love this idea!


#5

If You Like It…pass It On Like A Bad Case Of Rash!!!
Hahahaha You Know What I Mean!


#6

Just sending it up again.


#7

I dont understand. Every religion is waiting for every other religion to see it “their” way. there are thousands of religions, billions of people, billions of years of history, and yet no proven religion. is there any mention in the major religions as to why it is best to not be able to prove a religion? Doesnt it kinda promote persuasion, propaganda, and disagreements? Uncountable is the number of lives lost due to religion. when i say mention, im not looking for recent additions, i.e. “Islamic Martyrs are now a good thing, Allah told me earlier this year”-thanks


#8

[quote=Ikilledjesus]I dont understand. Every religion is waiting for every other religion to see it “their” way. there are thousands of religions, billions of people, billions of years of history, and yet no proven religion. is there any mention in the major religions as to why it is best to not be able to prove a religion? Doesnt it kinda promote persuasion, propaganda, and disagreements? Uncountable is the number of lives lost due to religion. when i say mention, im not looking for recent additions, i.e. “Islamic Martyrs are now a good thing, Allah told me earlier this year”-thanks
[/quote]

Hi and welcome. I find your user name interesting. Do you realize that you really did kill Jesus, but that you aren’t alone? We all killed him and continue to do so whenever we reject him and his redemptive act on the cross, don’t we?

Although there are many religions that doesn’t follow that all of them must be wrong and that not one of them can be right. Catholics believe the Christianity is the right one, of course, but we also recognize whatever is right in other faith systems. Not all Catholics through all time have, of course, but it a basic tenet of the Catholic faith that there is some truth in everyone’s beliefs, but only in the Catholic Church subsists the whole of the truth in matters of faith and morals.

You also have to keep in mind that many religions are of the mythological kind that are based in stories of how things came to be and why human beings are the way they are. The only 4 religions that don’t have a mythological basis are Judaism, Christianity, Mormonism (Latter Day Saints), and Islam. These last 4 are all revealed religions, iow, all of them claim to have their beliefs given to their founders by God himself. Christians believe our faith is based in Judaism since our Founder was Jewish and followed the Law of Moses. We believe him to be the Messiah of the Jews, the Son of God. As for Islam and Mormonism, they are both actually heresies of Christianity that have grown into independent religions. I hope that helps you sort out this issue.


#9

The great philosopher Dr. Mortimer J. Adler used philosophy to disprove every major religion (including Atheism) except for Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. As for himself, he was a long-time pagan who converted to Christianity in '84 and finally to the Catholic Church in '99. A good thing too, because he died in '01.

Also, while religion can lead to violence, so can secular nationalism. The Nazi party was founded on the ideals of atheistic eugenicists such as Spencer. The gullible will always be used by the powerful and greedy, they hardly need religion for that.


#10

[quote=Aaron I.]The great philosopher Dr. Mortimer J. Adler used philosophy to disprove every major religion (including Atheism) except for Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. As for himself, he was a long-time pagan who converted to Christianity in '84 and finally to the Catholic Church in '99. A good thing too, because he died in '01.

Also, while religion can lead to violence, so can secular nationalism. The Nazi party was founded on the ideals of atheistic eugenicists such as Spencer. The gullible will always be used by the powerful and greedy, they hardly need religion for that.
[/quote]

Do you have any more information on this guy. Id love to read anything he wrote.

In Christ.

Andre.


#11

[quote=miguel delgado]DEAR FRIENDS:

WHEN SOMEONE IN THE INTERNET ATACKS YOU WITH THE SAME OLD THINGS (IDOL WORSHIPERS, MARY IS NOT A GODDESS ETC ETC.) AND BLAST YOU WITH A LOT OF BIBLE PASSAGES, INSTEAD OF GIVING SOME PASSAGES BACK DO THIS (IT HAS WORKS WONDERS FOR ME)

GIVE SOME CATHOLIC SITES (IF YOU HAD SOME SITE WITH THE CATHESISM THAT WILL BE EXCELLENT) TO HIM AND CHALENGE HIM/HER* TO FIND WHAT HE IS SAYING IN THAT VERY PAGES. *
PLEASE USE IT, ITS GREAT (SO FAR OUT OF 5 NO ONE CAN COME UP WITH AN ANSWER)
[/quote]

What site do you refer them to?


#12

Here are some good Catholic Scripture sites:

New American Bible: usccb.org/nab/bible/index.htm
Mass Readings: usccb.org/nab/index.htm
Catechism: usccb.org/catechism/text/index.htm
Scripture Catholic: scripturecatholic.com/
Bible Christian Society: biblechristiansociety.com/
and, of course, Catholic Answers: catholic.com/


#13

[quote=miguel delgado]DEAR FRIENDS:

WHEN SOMEONE IN THE INTERNET ATACKS YOU WITH THE SAME OLD THINGS (IDOL WORSHIPERS, MARY IS NOT A GODDESS ETC ETC.) ##
[/quote]

Is she :smiley: ? ##

AND BLAST YOU WITH A LOT OF BIBLE PASSAGES, INSTEAD OF GIVING SOME PASSAGES BACK DO THIS (IT HAS WORKS WONDERS FOR ME)

GIVE SOME CATHOLIC SITES (IF YOU HAD SOME SITE WITH THE CATHESISM

There’s a very nice searchable CCC at scborromeo.org - IMHO it’s better than the one at christusrex.org, because the edition of the CCC at the former is more up to date

THAT WILL BE EXCELLENT) TO HIM AND CHALENGE HIM/HER

  • TO FIND WHAT HE IS SAYING IN THAT VERY PAGES. *
    PLEASE USE IT, ITS GREAT (SO FAR OUT OF 5 NO ONE CAN COME UP WITH AN ANSWER)*

This last bit, I don’t quite understand - there are plenty of Catholic (& Protestant) sites which say very little about what we have in common with other Christians - the differences are what attract the attention. Emphasising what one does not share, what sets one apart from others, is what allows one to look down one’s nose at others. :frowning: Emphasising the similarities, is not very healthy for one’s delusions of superiority - it might mean that one has to take other Christians seriously as Christians :slight_smile:


#14

Try to convince me that this verse nullifies everthing the Roman Catholic Church teaches about man saving himself with good works.
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - that not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - NOT BY WORKS , so no one can boast.” Eph 2:8-9


#15

[quote=Aaron I.]The great philosopher Dr. Mortimer J. Adler used philosophy to disprove every major religion (including Atheism) except for Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. As for himself, he was a long-time pagan who converted to Christianity in '84 and finally to the Catholic Church in '99. A good thing too, because he died in '01.

Also, while religion can lead to violence, so can secular nationalism. The Nazi party was founded on the ideals of atheistic eugenicists such as Spencer. The gullible will always be used by the powerful and greedy, they hardly need religion for that.
[/quote]

But - while that may be true, it leaves the case against “religion” (whatever that may mean) untouched. It’s playground ethics to try diverting attention from one’s own failings by saying, “But look at what X has done”.

Catholicism has a very bad record - that it is not unrelievedly black, is no credit at all to any of us, but solely to the mercy of God. So the other answer people often give - “look at all the good we’ve done” - is equally irrelevant. Unless one wants to imply that human holiness is somehow something we contributed all by ourselves. But this makes the Church a merely human project - “my”, or “our”, Church: and faith in Christ, which comes from Divine revelation by grace in Christ, becomes just another man-made philosophy.

Forgetfulness of the centrality of grace, and of what this implies, is the fatal weakness of so much RC apologetic (things may be a bit different with Eastern Catholics) - apologetic glorifies man and his merits, when it should always be going back to the glory of God & the grace of God. IOW, that sort of apologetic is Pelagian, and so, man-centred.

This is one of the roots of the difference between Protestants and us - they often have a far better appreciation of the reality of grace, and of its power. That is one reason Protestantism is so Pauline: Paul is the great “doctor of grace” in Romans & Galatians, for example. So insisting on the visible aspects of the Church is only part of the work that needs doing. ##


#16

what sites i refer them to…remember this was in a spanish speaking forum but here they are:

http://www.aciprensa.com/

130.94.75.135/portada.php?f_doc=12 (encuentra.com)

http://www.padreamatulli.net/

conocereisdeverdad.org/

http://www.fatima-apologetica.org/

vatican.va/

http://www.servidoras.org.ar/

servidoras.org.ar/CGI-BIN/om_isapi.dll?clientID=384297233&infobase=catecis4x.nfo&softpage=browse_frame_pg42 (catecismo de la iglesia catolica)

the last one is the cathesism


#17

[quote=Lehrer]Try to convince me that this verse nullifies everthing the Roman Catholic Church teaches about man saving himself with good works.

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - that not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - NOT BY WORKS , so no one can boast.” Eph 2:8-9
[/quote]

It doesn’t - but that is of no importance.

Provided, that is, one does not forget that the Church lives only because God is gracious. If the Church had any life but that of Christ, it would have withered a long time ago. So any Christian vision of the Saints or of merit, has to be radicalised by being seen in the perspective of the grace of Christ. Jesus is radical - all the time. Not least with notions of Messiahship - He radicalises them, just as He radicalised the Bible & the Law: there is nothing more radical and iconoclastic than being an accursed Messiah on a Cross: but He was. And He radicalises merit, by making it possible for us to have merit only if it ceases to be meritorious: He crowns His own works in us, as Augustine says - we are able to merit, not by being one party, and God another, but being intimately united with the Father in Christ through the Spirit.

IOW, merit is made safe for us, by ceasing to be separate from grace; by (so to say) dying to its own
meritoriousness, just as all things must die in the dying Christ: for it’s only by dying that they (& we) can come to the newness of the life of the Resurrection.

Which is one reason (ISTM anyway) why the CC does not understand, by “merit”, merit in the strict sense: merit for us is always founded in God’s mercy and goodness. never in our independent agency; it is always less than merit - it is always merit “in a sense”, qualified merit. It is vital that it should be.

Grace is the source of all goods - it is really just another name for God :smiley: He is the first grace, and all created things are contingent upon His universal causality. IMO, what we know as grace is the same as the creativity of God’s Love as it affects limited creatures.

Good works are entirely God’s in their goodness - the faults are ours. Yet they are Christ’s through His members, part of His self-offering to the Father: for we are in Him: no praise to us :slight_smile:

…continue…]


#18

[size=1]…continued & ended]
[/size]
We cannot in the strict sense merit eternal life - it comes purely from grace: yet it is our vocation by reason of our creation as men. That, is a paradox - and it is as well that it should be.

To love God is a need for man - yet it something which God commands: another paradox.

God is the Author of the whole of our salvation - yet we are commanded to “make [our] calling and election sure”: - a third.

God is One - yet God is Three: another.

The plan of the Most Holy God, Who is too pure of eye to look on evil, is to save sinful man: another. It is the creative Love of God which bridges the difference between His perfect Holiness & Being - and our lack of being, by being sinful . IOW, to justify us sinners, is as fully an act of creation as the creation of the world.

that Jesus is “made sin” on the Cross, and is “accursed”, while being that Son Who was infinitely well-pleasing to His Father in Heaven: is another

God is Grace from first to last. So Christians are under no law at all - which is exactly why we are under a far more stringent law than ever the Pharisees were: for our righteousness must exceed theirs. For God commands of us what we cannot give: total and unlimited and universal and unceasing love of Him, without any reserve whatever. This is impossible: God alone can do it - legalism OTOH is easy. And because we cannot do this, it is absolutely necessary for us to do it. In Christ, we can - so we do good works because we are in Christ - not so as to stay in Christ, still less to come to be in Christ. Grace is so far from being opposed to works after justification, that it is their essential source, the very thing which causes them to flourish. It goes without sayinng, that no work of man can even be thought to justify the unjustified: for God has provided for that already :slight_smile: by predestining us in Love to be heirs of salvation in Christ. Again, the Praise is His - not ours.

And so on :slight_smile: Everything, without any exception whatever, is wholly of grace. Including everything in the Church.

That is some of the detail of how works relate to being Catholic - it’s just one corner of one of the countless paradoxes of Christian believing. ##


#19

Are any of you aware of a book written over ten years ago by Rick Jones who wrote a book called *Understanding Roman Catholicism *which can be found at of all places, Chick .com! lol. Anyway he claims to go through the Catechism and biblically refute it. Needless to say his writings are easily refutable but when conversing with him through e-mail, he could not be convinced of his errors and I am sad to say, many other people also will not be. - maranajewell


#20

Sending It Up!!!


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