Urim and Thummim: is divination not a sin?


#1

Urim and Thummim is mentioned several times in the OT and theologians have said it is a divintiation method to ‘cast lots’ to tell the future. Well, what exactly does that mean? It seems like a form of divintiation to me. Yet divintaion is condemned. Well, what I conclude from this is that it is a.) a contradiction, or b.) it is okay to use divintiation in certain circumstances. Or maybe I am confused about the Urim and Thummim. What exactly does it mean to ‘cast lots’? Is that like the I Ching?


#2

newadvent.org/cathen/15224a.htm

jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=52&letter=U

Tradition is unanimous in stating that the use of the Urim and Thummim ceased with the destruction of the First Temple, or, in other words, with the death of the Older Prophets; and they were among the five things lacking in the Second Temple

New Testament condemnation. And a practice that had died out long before Jesus’ time.


#3

[quote=Chazemataz]Urim and Thummim is mentioned several times in the OT and theologians have said it is a divintiation method to ‘cast lots’ to tell the future. Well, what exactly does that mean? It seems like a form of divintiation to me. Yet divintaion is condemned. Well, what I conclude from this is that it is a.) a contradiction, or b.) it is okay to use divintiation in certain circumstances. Or maybe I am confused about the Urim and Thummim. What exactly does it mean to ‘cast lots’? Is that like the I Ching?
[/quote]

Chazemataz,

The Urim and Thummim were used to determine the will of God; this is utterly different from telling the future. My personal image of them–which may be totally wrong–is of a pair of objects, identical in size, shape, and weight, but different in color, in a bag that the high priest wore on his breastplate. Someone would ask him whether something was the will of God and he would put his hand in and pull out the first one he touched. If it was one, the answer was yes, and if it was the other the answer was no.

  • Liberian

#4

From the JewishEncyclopedia article:

I Sam. xxviii. 3-6 mentions three methods of divine communication: (1) the dream-oracle, of which frequent mention is made also in Assyrian and Babylonian literature; (2) the oracle by means of the Urim (here, undoubtedly, an abbreviation for “Urim and Thummim”); (3) the oracle by the word of the Prophets, found among all Semitic nations.


#5

Urim and Thummim were carried in the high priest’s epoch and used for determining the will of God. See Ezra 2:63, Nehemiah 7:65, Leviticus 8:8, Exodus 28:30, deuteronomy 33:8, 1 Samuel 14:41, 1 Samuel 28:6, Numbers 27:21.


#6

In the OT, definitely not used in the same way or for the same purpose as urim and thummim that were said to have been used 170 years ago. :wink:


#7

[quote=Jerusha]In the OT, definitely not used in the same way or for the same purpose as urim and thummim that were said to have been used 170 years ago. :wink:
[/quote]

Jerusha,

OK, you have piqued my curiosity. How were the urim and thummim supposedly used 170 years ago?

  • Liberian

#8

LDS legend says that they were the seer stones with which Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon.

lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/prayer/seer_stones_eom.htm

lds-mormon.com/transltn.shtml

gnosis.org/ahp.htm


#9

[quote=Chazemataz]Urim and Thummim is mentioned several times in the OT and theologians have said it is a divintiation method to ‘cast lots’ to tell the future. Well, what exactly does that mean? It seems like a form of divintiation to me. Yet divintaion is condemned. Well, what I conclude from this is that it is a.) a contradiction, or b.) it is okay to use divintiation in certain circumstances. Or maybe I am confused about the Urim and Thummim. What exactly does it mean to ‘cast lots’? Is that like the I Ching?
[/quote]

All of the occultic “ologies” and “istries” – astrology, numerology, palmistry," etc. – do the same thing at a particular point in the process: They distrust God and consult a distinctly non-God information source, typically referred to as “the astral plane” or “the Akashic record.”

The Urim and the Thummim did not do this.


#10

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