US 'eavesdropped on Vatican in run-up to conclave'


US secret services allegedly eavesdropped on cardinals before the conclave in March to elect a new pope, Italian weekly magazine Panorama claimed Wednesday.


Now I’m waiting to see the folks who claimed that it was OK for the USA to eavesdrop on German chancellor Angela Merkel, “because everybody does it”, to come and tell us that the eavesdropping on the cardinals was also OK.

Perhaps the USA is also eavesdropping on our Pope Francis’ phone conversations. Is that also OK, “because everybody does it”?


In one of his Jack Ryan novels Tom Clancy stated that the Holy See has its own intelligence service (okay, diplomatic listening posts if you prefer) and its own codes. He also portrayed the NSA eavesdropping and cracking the codes.

Since they have the capability we should assume the NSA is spying on everybody. Pretty soon every self-respecting country will have NSA-level capabilities.
As with drones we’ve shown the world how to do it, how effective it is, how (relatively) cheap, and what the drawbacks are.


To quote Tom Lehrer:

“Once all the Germans were warlike and mean,
But that couldnt happen again,
We taught them a lesson in 1918,
And they’ve hardly bothered us since then.”

I don’t have a problem spying on anybody. Getting caught is blatant incompetence. Everybody is a potential enemy, that is basic doctrine.


The Vatican is going to invade the USA?:shrug: I don’t understand either that if sensitive information is never passed by telephone why anyone would listen in?


Why not? After all, Obama considers the Catholic Church his enemy.


From your lips to the progressive Catholic Democrat’s ear…:thumbsup:


They despise the Church and would like nothing better to destroy it. Well! I say if we Catholics haven’t destroyed it already (since we seem to bungle things more often than not :)), no chance an outsider will, so they can eavesdrop all they want!! :smiley:


You think the Pope is planning a military offensive? Everyone knows the Popes views on everything, he makes a point of telling people.


Are you addressing me?


I have been thinking about starting a thread in the Moral Theology section, to explore Catholic doctrine on this issue. The issue of right to privacy, per the teachings of the Catholic Church.

If everybody is a potential enemy and eavesdropping is OK, why not install hidden cameras and microphones everywhere in Angela Merkel’s home, including her bedroom and bathroom?

Heck, why shouldn’t the NSA install hidden cameras and microphones in every single American home, bedrooms and bathrooms included?

Even better, install those cameras and microphones openly, and pass a law that would make it a crime for any American to cover or damage the NSA-installed cameras and microphones in their homes.

If everybody is a potential enemy, then why not?

I would like to explore Catholic teachings, per Magisterium, Catechism, etc, on the right to privacy.

However, even before that, I feel the real enemy is the NSA. The NSA is a criminal organization that’s running amok, building a monitored society in service of criminals who want to build a dictatorship. A dictatorship that will crush both American citizens and foreign countries. For me, the NSA is not a potential enemy. It has proven itself to be an actual enemy, breaking domestic and international laws.

The NSA monitoring my cell phone and internet communications is breaking the law, and my enemy is the NSA - not German chancellor Angela Merkel, not the Catholic Church’s cardinals, not Pope Francis, not the other innocent peaceful people who are victims of the NSA eavesdropping on their private communications.

If someone deserves to be prosecuted and punished here, for breaking the law, that’s not Angela Merkel, and not the Catholic cardinals. It’s the NSA that must be prosecuted, and it’s the NSA officials who must be punished, for engaging in illegal and immoral activity.


I’m all for countries arresting American spies and charging them with espionage. And don’t anyone wave the flag and try to play the Patriotism card. The time for that was when they were shoving the Patriot Act down our throats. NSA, CIA, etc, they’re not the good guys in my world.


They won’t do it for fear we would start executing their spies.


No Ridgerunner.


Dont’ you know its a Jesuit Plot, they want Catholicism to rule the world. Eventually they will have a Catholic president who’s only loyalty is to rome :smiley:


I know it shouldn’t surprise me but if they admit to eavesdropping in the run up to the Conclave then I can see them eavesdropping during the Conclave and for that to happen then I would have to consider the USA to be a legitimate target for appropriate retribution as spying during that is no different than violating the seal of Confession.


if they did, they probably heard the ancient language of Latin being spoken, Catholic prayers being spoken and no games of poker being played!


Here is what stands out to me from the article:

“…Italian weekly magazine Panorama claimed…”


“Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi said ‘we have heard nothing of this and are not worried about it.’”

I wouldn’t put too much stock in this.


And, by concealing and locking up his own past, he clearly sees an informed American public as an enemy. The craven desire for power must be a terrible thing, as it leads to a certain level of paranoia.



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