US Economy heads for fiscal cliff-Obama back


#1

search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7lnXjZtQXDQAkNpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0ZDhiNWpuBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0FDQlkwMV85Nw--/SIG=1303itvaj/EXP=1352400471/**http%3a//www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/07/obama-us-economy-fiscal-cliff

"Obama won his second term despite what had happened to growth, jobs and living standards in the past four years. A majority of Americans were unhappy about the state of the economy but still gave the president a second chance."


#2

[quote="GaryTaylor, post:1, topic:304536"]
search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7lnXjZtQXDQAkNpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0ZDhiNWpuBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0FDQlkwMV85Nw--/SIG=1303itvaj/EXP=1352400471/**http%3a//www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/07/obama-us-economy-fiscal-cliff

"Obama won his second term despite what had happened to growth, jobs and living standards in the past four years. A majority of Americans were unhappy about the state of the economy but still gave the president a second chance."

[/quote]

Unexplainable.


#3

The "fiscal cliff" was coming no matter who won, BTW. The only difference is will Mitch McConnell continue his refusal to work with Obama now that he can no longer deny him a second term.

And, if you're going to blame Obama for yesterday's Wall Street fall, then you have to credit him for the overall rise over the last few years.


#4

The markets greeted a second term for Obama on Wednesday morning by plummeting. Some of that was being attributed to another flare-up of concern over the Eurozone, but most of it was being attributed to having to peer over the edge of the cliff.

Why? Because all of the personalities and ingredients that created acrimony but no progress on the key issues of deficit reduction, taxation, the size of government, and repairing the economy in Obama's first term seem to be in place for the next four years.

Philly.com


#5

[quote="GaryTaylor, post:1, topic:304536"]
search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7lnXjZtQXDQAkNpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0ZDhiNWpuBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0FDQlkwMV85Nw--/SIG=1303itvaj/EXP=1352400471/**http%3a//www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/07/obama-us-economy-fiscal-cliff

"Obama won his second term despite what had happened to growth, jobs and living standards in the past four years. A majority of Americans were unhappy about the state of the economy but still gave the president a second chance."

[/quote]

The suckers. :shrug:


#6

[quote="Seeker1961, post:3, topic:304536"]
And, if you're going to blame Obama for yesterday's Wall Street fall, then you have to credit him for the overall rise over the last few years.

[/quote]

You sure can. Giving away money cheap is very good for big business. So it not allowing big businesses to fail whether or not they should. Not only that, some of the regulations actually caused some smaller, good, solvent businesses to go out of business due to compliance costs. This happened with some smaller local banks. The effect of that is to reduce the competition for larger banks that should have gone out of business.

However, the fiscal cliff is a big problem because it rapidly and significantly affects taxes. There will be a giant sucking sound out of the stock market if it is not addressed.


#7

[quote="ValPal, post:6, topic:304536"]
You sure can. Giving away money cheap is very good for big business. So it not allowing big businesses to fail whether or not they should. Not only that, some of the regulations actually caused some smaller, good, solvent businesses to go out of business due to compliance costs. This happened with some smaller local banks. The effect of that is to reduce the competition for larger banks that should have gone out of business.

However, the fiscal cliff is a big problem because it rapidly and significantly affects taxes. There will be a giant sucking sound out of the stock market if it is not addressed.

[/quote]

I'm no economist but this has been a big topic, in other words, "printing money", liquidity is what the Wall Street boom has been about but it could easily crash.


#8

[quote="mary_bobo, post:2, topic:304536"]
Unexplainable.

[/quote]

The election was within the margin of corruption.


#9

[quote="BroomWagon, post:7, topic:304536"]
I'm no economist but this has been a big topic, in other words, "printing money", liquidity is what the Wall Street boom has been about but it could easily crash.

[/quote]

Agreed. You want to see this economy crash and burn - let interest rates creep up a few points. With inflation taking off like it has interest rates have to start moving too.


#10

[quote="SamH, post:9, topic:304536"]
Agreed. You want to see this economy crash and burn - let interest rates creep up a few points. With inflation taking off like it has interest rates have to start moving too.

[/quote]

Eventually, but there is no certainty it will be soon. Wall Street is convinced of it, and that's why the DOW isn't 6,000.

The Repubs will cave regarding the fiscal cliff. They will try to make it look like they didn't raise taxes, but they will.


#11

Just letting it settle to market levels would cause it to crash and burn. Not only would it make borrowing more expensive for you, me, and businesses, but it would caused the debt to balloon.


#12

[quote="ValPal, post:11, topic:304536"]
Just letting it settle to market levels would cause it to crash and burn. Not only would it make borrowing more expensive for you, me, and businesses, but it would caused the debt to balloon.

[/quote]

Fear of it is a very big factor (along with the uncertainties of Dodd-Frank) preventing businesses from borrowing to expand. Everybody knows that 3% rate on business machinery will eventually be 10% or 15% or 20%. So nobody borrows long, if they borrow at all.


#13

[quote="Ridgerunner, post:12, topic:304536"]
Fear of it is a very big factor (along with the uncertainties of Dodd-Frank) preventing businesses from borrowing to expand. Everybody knows that 3% rate on business machinery will eventually be 10% or 15% or 20%. So nobody borrows long, if they borrow at all.

[/quote]

It would depend on whether it is a fixed rate loan or a variable rate loan. Now can be an ideal time to lock in a fixed rate loan because then you can gain from inflation. Of course if business demand is expected to remain low then businesses won't want to borrow. Also, banks seemed to have learned their lesson a bit and are less likely to lend unless credit quality is strong.


#14

Our journey toward the fiscal cliff began when the Federal, State, County, and City governments passed laws (decades ago) allowing them to give themselves a raise. What great security it is for the “takers” in our society to work for some government entity - eliminating any contributions to the economic “common good.” Once someone lands a government job it’s next to impossible to teminate them for incompetence or laziness and they will be on the public dole “Forever”. How many million government workers and nare do wells on government assistance have latched on to the pot of gold. Retired military, congressmen/women, postal workers, and others that are drawing huge pensions, free medical care, and other taxpayer funded perks for up to 50 years are more for a short stint in some gov’t job. After serving in the Army Active Duty Guard Reserve program for 8 years I resigned as a result of seeing men and women joining who couldn’t find a job but could sit behind a desk for 18 years or less and draw a taxpayer funded government pension for the rest of their life (50+ years in so many cases).

We, are the one’s who created this “fiscal cliff” by continuing to put people in office who espouse giving us what we want i.e. free phones, amnesty, free medical care, all the condoms you want, free abortions, food stamps, aid to foreign countries, and the one’s receiving the goodies are happy and the ones working and paying the bills are not.

Hoping the forum forgives me for my diatribe. God help us!


#15

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