US moves to take oil spill fund out of BP's hands

WASHINGTON — US officials Tuesday threatened to take over the claims process for victims of the Gulf oil spill, as it pressured BP to stop dragging its heels on setting up a multi-billion dollar damages fund.

Full story - AFP.

So if this actually happens, it will bring the number of industries that have had some sort of takeover by the Obama government to at least 6.

Health
Automotive
Financial
Tobacco
Student Loans
Oil

[quote="MarcoPolo, post:2, topic:202058"]
So if this actually happens, it will bring the number of industries that have had some sort of takeover by the Obama government to at least 6.

Health
Automotive
Financial
Tobacco
Student Loans
Oil

[/quote]

How did he take over health care? Did he nationalize the hospitals, insurance companies, doctors, nurses?

Did they not loan the automotive companies money which they are paying back now with interests? Did I miss something but did the President nationalize Ford after they said they did not need the money? Or did they?

How did he nationalize the financial industry? He finished but Bush started. Gave them money with no requirement of business plan as they did with the automotive companies. When the Wall Street Banksters started doling out huge bonuses again is when Obama clamped down on them. WE bail them out and they give themselves bonues while millions are Americans are out of jobs, losing homes, putting a huge stress on the welfare system.

Tobacco? What tobacco companies are nationalized?

Student loans? I will give you that one. But I guess you are ok with interests our students paid (including myself with my student loans I had) gone to multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses for banking executives. All the while the government had to back up many of the student loans. I guess you are ok with that?

Oil? What company does the government own? Or are you ok with oil companies corrupting our government and destroying our oceans, food supply, jobs (which now as tax payers we have to help them). You support oil companies, especially foreign owned, companies operating in our country, at will, with no regards to any regulations for their own benifit?

[quote="josephdavid, post:3, topic:202058"]

Student loans? I will give you that one. But I guess you are ok with interests our students paid (including myself with my student loans I had) gone to multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses for banking executives. All the while the government had to back up many of the student loans. I guess you are ok with that?

[/quote]

There you have it. The hatred of the private sector, in plain English for all to read.

[quote="Suudy, post:4, topic:202058"]
There you have it. The hatred of the private sector, in plain English for all to read.

[/quote]

Never said I had hatred for the private sector. Please do not twist my words to prove any point you have.

So you are ok that the interests paid on loans for the education of the american students goes to outrageous executive pay? I love the private sector. But in some cases the private sector is ripping us off.

What is your suggestion? Or are you ok with the current state of student loans (prior to new law)?

Student loans? I will give you that one. But I guess you are ok with interests our students paid (including myself with my student loans I had) gone to multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses for banking executives. All the while the government had to back up many of the student loans. I guess you are ok with that?

You knew the terms up front.

You chose to take the loans.

Now they have to be paid back, it's sour grapes time?

Time to grow up.

[quote="JHMB, post:6, topic:202058"]
You knew the terms up front.

You chose to take the loans.

Now they have to be paid back, it's sour grapes time?

Time to grow up.

[/quote]

I love that comment. Time to grow up. Perhaps I can say time to stop being a corporatist?

Please spare me. A 20 something does not necessarily know that their student loans interests is going to be paid big salaries and bonuses to bank executives. Not to mention that when they graduate from college the salaries have fallen over the past 20 years while the executives of these big banks continue to grow (40:1 in 1980 to 256:1 in 2009).

Perhaps you are ok with that? Or you not want to invest in education of our youth (another way to say it is inevesting in our future)? As for me majority of my education was paid by the U.S. government (aka known as you) .. Thank you

[quote="josephdavid, post:5, topic:202058"]
Never said I had the private sector. Please do not twist my words to prove any point you have.

[/quote]

I don't see any other way to interpret your disgust with "multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses for banking executives". I don't think their salaries or bonuses are based upon the interest rate, or even the default rate, of student loans.

[quote="josephdavid, post:5, topic:202058"]
So you are ok that the interests paid on loans for the education of the american students goes to outrageous executive pay? I love the private sector. But in some cases the private sector is ripping us off.

[/quote]

Really? How so? They charge, what, 5.6% (subsidized) or 6.8% (unsubsidized), for an unsecured loan? Gee, sounds like they are ripping students off. :rolleyes: Try to walking into a bank and asking for a $20k loan with only a signature, no income, and no credit history, for 6.8%. See how far that will get you.

Do you really think the interest rates will go down with the federal government directly administering the program? If they stay the same (or go up), will you accuse the federal government of funding "outrageous executive pay" for government employees? There is no indication that anything will change for the borrower. The terms will be largely the same.

Do you really think that student loans are funding "outrageous executive pay"? Gee, could they be getting paid based upon the performance of all their products, rather than just student loans?

[quote="josephdavid, post:5, topic:202058"]
What is your suggestion? Or are you ok with the current state of student loans (prior to new law)?

[/quote]

Sort of. I had student loans. And it was great not to pay interest until after graduation. But it wasn't fair to my neighbor to pay the interest on my student loans. My suggestion? Get rid of the subsidies. Make it how it was before federal involvement. Have the government encourage more scholarship foundations.

Perhaps you are ok with that? Or you not want to invest in education of our youth (another way to say it is inevesting in our future)? As for me majority of my education was paid by the U.S. government (aka known as you) .. Thank you

Hopefully, all of the others actually benefited from their education, and act intelligently and respectfully.

Seems that the only return on your investment has been arrogance, anger and hostility.

Those before you would be ashamed; those who follow are lucky.

This caught my eye. The “majority” of your education was paid the US Government? How so? Not through student loans (unless you defaulted). So what does this have to do with the student loan takeover?

[quote="Suudy, post:10, topic:202058"]
This caught my eye. The "majority" of your education was paid the US Government? How so? Not through student loans (unless you defaulted). So what does this have to do with the student loan takeover?

[/quote]

I was just saying that in many cases except mine. Mine was through scholarship (Army). I had to take out one loan, but was reimbursed. But many cases they have to take out loans to cover their entire college education.

Now do I agree with 100% to take over student loans? No. I think the government could enact regulations towards banks towards student loans.

The underlying point is that we have seen the mantra "let businesses regulate themselves" does not work. The government is essetially us and their job per the Constitution is to look out for the General Welfare of the people which entails regulating businesses so to not harm the citizen. Jefferson in particular wrote about this many times.

So the case of BP. If the management are found to be criminally negligent, then we should not only fine them but perhaps give them the death penalty. I also say that for those we pay salaries to (i.e. federal and state regulators). It is time we begin to make our politicians be accountable and that they work for you and I not for special interests and big multi-national corporations. Also we need to hold businesses accountable too. Not just after the damage is done but before. I believe in Capitalism but I believe there is Moral Capitalism. The current and previous Popes wrote of this.

[quote="Suudy, post:4, topic:202058"]
There you have it. The hatred of the private sector, in plain English for all to read.

[/quote]

C'mon Suudy, it's not hatred its jealousy. Had some people on the left been on the receiving end of that trillion dollars those evil greedy CEO's make they might have a different outlook on things.

[quote="josephdavid, post:11, topic:202058"]
I was just saying that in many cases except mine. Mine was through scholarship (Army). I had to take out one loan, but was reimbursed. But many cases they have to take out loans to cover their entire college education.

[/quote]

And many private employers offer the same. Every company I've worked for has offered scholarship programs. Yes, even the boat shop I worked at in high school had a $500 scholarship (usually granted to a mechanic for training).

[quote="josephdavid, post:11, topic:202058"]
Now do I agree with 100% to take over student loans? No. I think the government could enact regulations towards banks towards student loans.

[/quote]

But they already do. What else could they do? They already control the interest rate, terms of lending, etc. What more is there other than to have Uncle Sam be the loan originator (which is exactly what they did)?

[quote="josephdavid, post:11, topic:202058"]
The underlying point is that we have seen the mantra "let businesses regulate themselves" does not work. The government is essetially us and their job per the Constitution is to look out for the General Welfare of the people which entails regulating businesses so to not harm the citizen. Jefferson in particular wrote about this many times.

[/quote]

Nobody is suggesting unfettered, unregulated capitalism. At least no mainstream Republican, and no reasonable conservative on this board. Yes, regulation and oversight are necessary.

[quote="josephdavid, post:11, topic:202058"]
So the case of BP. If the management are found to be criminally negligent, then we should not only fine them but perhaps give them the death penalty.

[/quote]

Really? Would you suggest the same for the Cardinals and Bishops during the sex abuse scandal?

[quote="josephdavid, post:11, topic:202058"]
I also say that for those we pay salaries to (i.e. federal and state regulators). It is time we begin to make our politicians be accountable and that they work for you and I not for special interests and big multi-national corporations.

[/quote]

And you don't think that is happening now? BP isn't being excoriated in the media and being roundly criticized by government officials and private citizens? What makes you think they are getting off scott free?

[quote="josephdavid, post:11, topic:202058"]
Also we need to hold businesses accountable too. Not just after the damage is done but before. I believe in Capitalism but I believe there is Moral Capitalism. The current and previous Popes wrote of this.

[/quote]

And nobody here is disagreeing with that point. But really, the death penalty for those involved? Do you think the Popes meant to enforce Moral Capitalism by the death penalty and seizing of assets?

[quote="bbarrick8383, post:12, topic:202058"]
C'mon Suudy, it's not hatred its jealousy. Had some people on the left been on the receiving end of that trillion dollars those evil greedy CEO's make they might have a different outlook on things.

[/quote]

Sadly money does funny things to people. When we began to worship money before God and forgetting the morality and the responsiblity to our fellow man, money can cause problems.

I make good money but not CEO money. Personally I am far from jealous of their income. I live just well making six figures a year.

[quote="josephdavid, post:14, topic:202058"]
I make good money but not CEO money. Personally I am far from jealous of their income. I live just well making six figures a year.

[/quote]

Ah, the picture becomes more clear. No wonder you don't mind paying higher taxes (not just income taxes) to fund big government. You make almost double what most people make.

[quote="Suudy, post:13, topic:202058"]
But they already do. What else could they do? They already control the interest rate, terms of lending, etc. What more is there other than to have Uncle Sam be the loan originator (which is exactly what they did)?

[/quote]

The Federal Reserve controls the interest in terms of lending. This is a private entity.

Nobody is suggesting unfettered, unregulated capitalism. At least no mainstream Republican, and no reasonable conservative on this board. Yes, regulation and oversight are necessary.

I agree. However some extreme right Republicans like Palin do not believe in regulation.

Really? Would you suggest the same for the Cardinals and Bishops during the sex abuse scandal?

Not a literal death penalty BUT "corporate dealth penalty" much like Teddy Roosevelt talked about. Thank you for pointing that out and letting me clarify that.

And you don't think that is happening now? BP isn't being excoriated in the media and being roundly criticized by government officials and private citizens? What makes you think they are getting off scott free?

I hope they do not. I really do not but I remain skeptical. With the Exxon spill we tax payers paid more to clean that up and the affect on business and income than Exxon doled out.

And nobody here is disagreeing with that point. But really, the death penalty for those involved? Do you think the Popes meant to enforce Moral Capitalism by the death penalty and seizing of assets?

No not literally putting them to death but corporate death penalty. I am opposed to the actually death penalty so, no I did not mean that in a literal sense. Again, thank you for pointing that out.

[quote="josephdavid, post:16, topic:202058"]
The Federal Reserve controls the interest in terms of lending. This is a private entity.

[/quote]

Ah, so you are for the elimination of the FR Now that is a different argument.

But then again, the FR board members are government appointees. They do have oversight. And congress can set the rates of any program it funds. They choose to let the FR set those rates. And those rates are quite generous. Like I said, try going into a bank with no work history, no credit history, and just a signature and get $20k.

[quote="josephdavid, post:16, topic:202058"]
I agree. However some extreme right Republicans like Palin do not believe in regulation.

[/quote]

None? As in zero? Complete, unfettered capitalism? I'm not sure Palin believes that. And I don't know of any Republican that does. Some quotes would be helpful.

[quote="josephdavid, post:16, topic:202058"]
Not a literal death penalty BUT "corporate dealth penalty" much like Teddy Roosevelt talked about. Thank you for pointing that out and letting me clarify that.

[/quote]

Ok, fair enough. I'll ask it a bit differently. Do you think the Popes meant the seizure of assets and redistribution when talking about Moral Capitalism? That is what a "corporate death penalty" essentially is.

[quote="josephdavid, post:16, topic:202058"]
I hope they do not. I really do not but I remain skeptical. With the Exxon spill we tax payers paid more to clean that up and the affect on business and income than Exxon doled out.

[/quote]

I'm not sure of the details. And if Exxon didn't pay a significant portion of the cleanup and recovery costs, it was a miscarriage of justice. But to demand the "corporate death penalty" because Exxon got away with something is not a proportionate response.

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