I’ve heard many comments on how factoring in vacations if not a good reason for nfp because it’s selfish

I’m a bit confused, so catholic families aren’t supposed to go on vacations or travel?

from my experience, it was always good bonding time, at least for my family. which as many of you know, in my case, is a very good thing

or am I just misunderstanding something?

Could you explain what you mean?

:confused: What are you asking? I am not sure what this means.

The nfp debate rages on regardless.

No, vacation are a chance for us to enjoy God’s creation and be at peace with our families.
Not sinful.

that’s what I was thinking, too

yes, I suppose the debate does come back to me, from time to time. I don’t really know why I have a hard time with it

probably because there are so many opinions of what constitutes just or unjust reasons.

or how big families should be the norm and small ones the exception. though I guess that depends on what qualifies as a big family, 5, 10, 22? which I’m sure will get just as many different opinions

What am I missing here? What is the connection between nfp and vacations? :confused:

I haven’t any actual information, but when I read the OP I wondered if it had been suggested that it was sinful to attempt to time the holiday to coincide with the infertile part of the cycle, so as to be able to make most use of the extra time and energy available while on holiday, because this would be “selfish”. It seems to fit with the phrase “factoring in” although it seems to me to be more like factoring the NFP into the vacation than factoring the vacation into the NFP. So that’s purely a guess.

If that is what the OP was referring to, then as an outsider I’d be interested to hear what the justification would be for such an idea. If my guess is a mile wide of the mark, then I’d be interested to know what exactly the OP was asking about - as would several other posters, by the look of things.

Here’s the thing:

People can quote all kinds of documents, rehash all the teachings, debate whether NFP is hard, or just, or easy or impossible, or people are selfish , or they’re trying to provide a good life for the kids they already have, etc etc etc. There are literally hundreds of contentious threads on this topic.
But the bottom line is, until you are married, and have a reason to pursue NFP, it’s all just conversation. In real life, you need to work together as a couple, in love, and in accordance with what the church teaches and hopefully, under the guidance of an expert on the topic. Some find it virtually impossible or that a spouse is unwilling to use it.
It’s a thing that is between couples. And we prayerfully hope that they make the right choices and allow God to work as He see fit in their lives.

NFP is usually presented as a valid option when one has grave reasons. Wanting to pursue an expensive vacation is often used as an example of a less-than-stellar reason for avoiding children.

Now, I agree with the OP: a vacation can be a wonderful thing for a family, just as it can just be one, big exercise in stress management and quarrel-avoidance. :slight_smile:

But the key here is to learn to discern when one is simply being selfish and using “family time” as an excuse to spend lots of money.

Moreover, the Church has given us guidance on what sorts of “grave reasons” are acceptable, one of which is economic.

… but if one doesn’t have the economic ability to have a new child because one insists on setting aside $1,200 per month to save up for a massive European holiday, I would call into question whether or not this is grave.

Moreover, as lots of folks can attest, having a vacation doesn’t need to be expensive! A person doesn’t have to spends thousands of dollars at DisneyWorld, for example, while refusing to take advantage of simpler forms of leisure in their own backyard.

… come to think of it, I think one could find great deals even on a European vacation. My parents are currently in Poland for something like a month. My mother found a little condominium/apartment to rent for something like a thousand dollars for four week. They’re certainly not spending more a few thousand dollars in total, and they’ve saved up out of their pensions and social security income.

So again, I think the key here is maintaining a balance between wanting to vacation and wanting to waste a ton of money to vacation. Insisting on wasting money does not equal grave economic reasons to avoid more kids.

I thought they were referring to planning a vacation based on when you won’t be having your period. :shrug:

There is no connection to NFP and vacations.

People make plenty of assumptions as to other people’s motives. for all kinds of things.

yes, I’ve noticed

this is what scrupulosity does though, it makes you start to questionyour own motives after you hear things

I understand what you are trying to say though, that unless a person is in a situation, it’s hard to say how it will really turn out. and I don’t disagree with that.

I’m not married, no, but it could happen day, perhaps, I realy don’t know. I’d like to at least have an idea of what church teaching is on this.

the church says one can use if one has just causes. now whaht exactly constitutes just causes is apparently not very clear. that’s where I get confused, I suppose

I can’t tell anyone what a just cause is, but in my mind I always worry about how my decisions will play when I have to defend them to Christ. I’m not sure some of the choices I have made and continue to make regarding the use of or should I say squandering of our resources are going to play very well at that meeting. Others here are very good at justifying and are very comfortable with their decisions or life style choices–I’m not so comfortable with many of mine nor do I know if I can really justify many of them. I’m not sure Christ will commend me for enjoying that really nice bottle of wine or that nice dinner out–I’m not sure I’m going to get a nice pat on the back and a “hey you deserved it” from him. From my reading of the Gospels --it seems much more likely he’s going to wonder how I was able to ignore the homeless guy sleeping under a blue tarp as I walked down to the local wine bar to enjoy myself. When Christ attended banquets and nice dinners–he seemed to be on the clock–I’m not sure I can say that of myself most of the time. I’m not calling out or questioning anyone else’s decisions or there comfort with them as that’s between God and them and I can’t speak to what God is calling them too–I’m just sharing my concerns about mine. I don’t question my motives just my strength to do the will of the Father and to live the Gospel.

The peace of Christ,

This was addressed in your previous thread and you were given a good answer. Why do you raise it again?

Is it your intention to canvass every conceivable circumstance to enquire whether it is a reason to avoid a child?

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