Vatican bank image hurt as JP Morgan closes account [Is the government attacking the Church?]


#1

Hillary Clinton put the Vatican Bank on a criminal watch list last week and this week J.P Morgan Chase Bank closed the Vatican Bank accounts in Milan. (George Soros is one of the largest share holders in J.P. Morgan Chase Bank.) The Vatican Bank accounts were frozen last year and the money in them was seized. The money was eventually returned. The Vatican Bank changed its regulations and procedures to mirror the practices used throughout Europe. They were hoping to be placed on Europe's banking 'white list" in the next few months, so there would be no future problems. This probably will not happen due to the U.S. placing it on a criminal watch list.
reuters.com/article/2012/03/19/vatican-bank-idUSL6E8EJ1F920120319
theblaze.com/stories/jpmorgan-chase-closes-vatican-bank-account/

With Obamacare, the birth control sterilization mandate, the statement to the Bishops that they should follow some of the "more enlightened Catholics," and placing the Vatican on a criminal watch list, does anyone get the feeling that the Church is being attacked?


#2

**

With Obamacare, the birth control sterilization mandate, the statement to the Bishops that they should follow some of the "more enlightened Catholics," and placing the Vatican on a criminal watch list, does anyone get the feeling that the Church is being attacked?

**

58% of Catholics voted for him why would he want to attack us? As far as birth control goes more than 98% of Catholic's use birth control. See below. Obama is just a Democrat, he's not the anti-Christ. :eek:

salon.com/2012/02/02/catholics_need_to_preach_what_we_practice/


#3

[quote="Love_God_Too, post:2, topic:278231"]


58% of Catholics voted for him why would he want to attack us? As far as birth control goes more than 98% of Catholic's use birth control. See below. Obama is just a Democrat, he's not the anti-Christ. :eek:

salon.com/2012/02/02/catholics_need_to_preach_what_we_practice/

[/quote]

Amen Amen Amen.....Actually an Iota of truth around this catholic site


#4

[quote="Love_God_Too, post:2, topic:278231"]


58% of Catholics voted for him why would he want to attack us? As far as birth control goes more than 98% of Catholic's use birth control. See below. Obama is just a Democrat, he's not the anti-Christ. :eek:

salon.com/2012/02/02/catholics_need_to_preach_what_we_practice/

[/quote]

Really? "More than 98% of Catholics" -- really? And where, praytell, did you dig up this factoid? Just because someone said it on TV doesn't make it real.

I don't know that the word "attack" is the one I would use. Maybe "reined in" or "pressured." I think we are far from being attacked, though I do think those of us who are in line with Rome are just going to continue seeing the difference between our beliefs and actions and those of the mainstream culture.

Not that I think attack isn't possible -- I just don't think that it's happening right now, not yet.

Gertie


#5

[quote="Love_God_Too, post:2, topic:278231"]

58% of Catholics voted for him why would he want to attack us? As far as birth control goes more than 98% of Catholic's use birth control. See below. Obama is just a Democrat, he's not the anti-Christ. :eek:

salon.com/2012/02/02/catholics_need_to_preach_what_we_practice/

[/quote]

And this is the type, of cafeteria catholicism, that the chastisement will rid the church of!! Be strong and hold to God's ways.


#6

[quote="Wiljo2050, post:3, topic:278231"]
Amen Amen Amen.....Actually an Iota of truth around this catholic site

[/quote]

Truth does not consist in finding people who agree with you. You may not agree with everything the Church teaches, but that doesn't make Church teaching any less the Truth.

And yes, there is "an lota of truth" around this website -- but the post you quoted, especially if you were referring to the link, couldn't be more out of line with the Truth.

Gertie


#7

[quote="Love_God_Too, post:2, topic:278231"]


58% of Catholics voted for him why would he want to attack us? As far as birth control goes more than 98% of Catholic's use birth control. See below. Obama is just a Democrat, he's not the anti-Christ. :eek:

salon.com/2012/02/02/catholics_need_to_preach_what_we_practice/

[/quote]

Not sure if your numbers are correct. Can you please back this up with sources so that I can see for myself?

Notwithstanding your statements, it matters not how many are not following Church teaching. Church teaching is still Church teaching.


#8

catholicworldreport.com/blog/detail.aspx?contentid=1212

Read this.


#9

I am always so surprised at how superstitious people can be as Roman Catholics. The "institution" of the Church is not infallible ONLY the Holy Father is, and, then, only in Special Circumstances. None of which you have mentioned. The institution of the Church has been wrong many times in the past and I am sure they will be wrong in the future. As I understand it, we are called to support the Church and that does not necessarily mean agree with it. WE would all do well to remember that Francis of Assisi, was banished and almost excommunicated several times for challenging the "institution" of the Church.

Have a God Filled Day.


#10

[quote="Galnextdoor, post:1, topic:278231"]
Hillary Clinton put the Vatican Bank on a criminal watch list last week.

[/quote]

The US State Department recently issued its 2012 International Narcotics Control Strategy Report, and in that report are three lists of countries which risk money laundering. The lists are based upon degree of risk: countries where money laundering is known to occur, countries where there is a high degree of risk, and countries being monitored. The United States, the UK, Russia, Germany, and about 60 other nations are in the worst category. The Vatican, however, is in the middle category.
state.gov/j/inl/rls/nrcrpt/2012/vol2/184112.htm

The Vatican was included for the first time in these lists because, last year, it began the process of cooperating with international law regarding banking transparency. Before then, not enough was known for the State Department to make an evaluation.

Allegations of money laundering by the Vatican Bank have occurred in the past, however.
reuters.com/article/2012/03/08/vatican-laundering-idUSL5E8E89AM20120308


#11

[quote="Galnextdoor, post:1, topic:278231"]
Hillary Clinton put the Vatican Bank on a criminal watch list last week and this week J.P Morgan Chase Bank closed the Vatican Bank accounts in Milan. (George Soros is one of the largest share holders in J.P. Morgan Chase Bank.) The Vatican Bank accounts were frozen last year and the money in them was seized. The money was eventually returned. The Vatican Bank changed its regulations and procedures to mirror the practices used throughout Europe. They were hoping to be placed on Europe's banking 'white list" in the next few months, so there would be no future problems. This probably will not happen due to the U.S. placing it on a criminal watch list.
reuters.com/article/2012/03/19/vatican-bank-idUSL6E8EJ1F920120319
theblaze.com/stories/jpmorgan-chase-closes-vatican-bank-account/

With Obamacare, the birth control sterilization mandate, the statement to the Bishops that they should follow some of the "more enlightened Catholics," and placing the Vatican on a criminal watch list, does anyone get the feeling that the Church is being attacked?

[/quote]

In my opinion, yes they are. They appear to be, albeit very progressively and subtly, laying the groundwork to make a significant proportion of Catholic teaching illegal. And so insidiously chip away at any moral conscience by manipulating the media and diverting attention away from ethically illicit legislation by identifying, and demonising, selected scapegoats who would stand in their way. This strategy allows them to have written in to law the removal of human rights, legitimate objections to government policy, freedom of speech and ultimately democracy. Reminds me of a certain country in Europe around 1939-1945.

God bless


#12

[quote="Gertabelle, post:4, topic:278231"]
I don't know that the word "attack" is the one I would use. Maybe "reined in" or "pressured." I think we are far from being attacked, though I do think those of us who are in line with Rome are just going to continue seeing the difference between our beliefs and actions and those of the mainstream culture.

Not that I think attack isn't possible -- I just don't think that it's happening right now, not yet.

Gertie

[/quote]

Maybe we're not experiencing an all out "attack" at this point but don't you get the feeling that we're in the cross-hairs? And I do view some of what Obama is doing (the birth control mandate especially) as an attack specifically on the Catholic Church. Who else tells their members that birth control is forbidden, other than NFP?
No, let's be Christian in our views but not blind.


#13

[quote="johnjay01, post:9, topic:278231"]
I am always so surprised at how superstitious people can be as Roman Catholics. The "institution" of the Church is not infallible ONLY the Holy Father is, and, then, only in Special Circumstances. None of which you have mentioned. The institution of the Church has been wrong many times in the past and I am sure they will be wrong in the future. As I understand it, we are called to support the Church and that does not necessarily mean agree with it. WE would all do well to remember that Francis of Assisi, was banished and almost excommunicated several times for challenging the "institution" of the Church.

Have a God Filled Day.

[/quote]

:hmmm: Superstitious? Superstitious? Disagreeing with your statement does not make me "superstitious." It might make me ignorant, or naive, simple-minded, or even stupid; but not superstitious.

OK, so the Holy Father is protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching error in faith or morals when he speaks "ex cathedra." That doesn't mean that The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which was not written by the Pope's hand, is just a book of suggestions which people calling themselves Catholic are free to follow or ignore, according to their own feelings at the moment... or according to those thoughts they believe are so much more well-reasoned and insightful than the Church.

The teachings of the Church are to be followed -- that is the ideal. For anything less than the ideal, there is the sacrament of confession :thumbsup:

Just sayin'.

Gertie


#14

[quote="Love_God_Too, post:2, topic:278231"]
As far as birth control goes more than 98% of Catholic's use birth control.

[/quote]

To say that 98% of ANY group of people practice “X” (apart from breathing) should be suspect from the beginning.

That survey was restricted to women aged 15-44, so that cuts out all women who were older than 44 at the time of the survey. And a footnote explains that a rather significant chunk of women were excluded from this figure of “all women” — namely, women who are pregnant, post-partum or trying to get pregnant.” A later footnote says that the only women who had sex in the last three months were included in this group. Finally, included in this 98 percent figure of current contraceptive users are the 11 percent who report no method.

So I guess we could say that among women aged 15-44 who had sex in the last three months but aren’t pregnant, post-partum or trying to get pregnant, 98 percent of women who identify as Catholic used contraception. It’s worth pondering just who is left out of this 98 percent, other than, you know, everyone who doesn’t use contraception, everyone who didn't have sex in the three months prior to the survey, etc.

The study was designed to find only women who would be most likely to use contraception. And it did.


#15

I am surprised and saddened that anyone could deny the Church is being attacked.
That is exactly why our country is in such a grave situation. Please wake up. The Church is seriously attacked, how could anyone not see the obvious fact?:eek:


#16

Indeed 58% of Catholics voted for Obama in 2008.... Google for yourself


#17

[quote="PTL, post:15, topic:278231"]
I am surprised and saddened that anyone could deny the Church is being attacked.
That is exactly why our country is in such a grave situation. Please wake up. The Church is seriously attacked, how could anyone not see the obvious fact?:eek:

[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said.


#18

The Church has evolved throughout the years..... The Inquisition is our most grievous example of such change, God calls us to love one another and to love our enemies. IE: those that disagree with us: He calls on us to do this for the very reason that time, and an increase of practical knowledge, calls for. Do not dismiss the message, for the sentence in the said message.

God Bless


#19

I further looked into the exit polls of the 2008 election.... The Catholic vote varies amongst these polls from 54% to 58%. In any any case, the majority of Catholics supported him. The first Democrat since the Reagan revolution, so to speak. There is little dispute that the majority of Catholic women use some sort of birth control, overwhelmingly. Whether you accept the 98% polling figure from the Salon article or not.


#20

[quote="Love_God_Too, post:19, topic:278231"]
I further looked into the exit polls of the 2008 election.... The Catholic vote varies amongst these polls from 54% to 58%. In any any case, the majority of Catholics supported him. The first Democrat since the Reagan revolution, so to speak. There is little dispute that the majority of Catholic women use some sort of birth control, overwhelmingly. Whether you accept the 98% polling figure from the Salon article or not.

[/quote]

You do realize that, even IF these numbers are correct, that doesn't make contraception OK? It does not mean that the Catholic Church should look around and change its teachings according to what a certain group of Catholics agree with, or vote for. You do realize that, don't you?

People change; God does not.

People move away from God; God does not move away from His people.

Read this: catholicworldreport.com/blog/detail.aspx?contentid=1212

Very good article. Please read.


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