Vatican hit by gay sex scandal

Will it ever end?

guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/04/vatican-gay-sex-scandal

John Allen comments on it:

As sexual scandals of various sorts have washed through the Catholic church around the world, the Vatican has typically tried to play a subordinate role – treating them as matters of grave concern, to be sure, but ultimately something for which local bishops must take the primary responsibility.

Two developments this week, however, bring those scandals home for the Holy See. One involves two lay Vatican employees fired after reportedly being caught up in a gay prostitution ring, the other turns on reports of abuse by priests connected to a German choir once directed by the pope’s brother.

Wow. It’s just unbelievable…

I’m one of those Lutherans who spends a lot of time trying to heal perceptions between us and Roman Catholics, and this kind of stuff just makes it harder and harder.

I’m really glad I don’t have to live in Rome… but like Luther before me, I’ll pray for the Pope, who sadly does.

Wow.

IF this is true----consider the fact that the enemy has been seeding the Church with such people for decades.

We are at war. They will use any means to win. And I am standing by Holy Mother Church.

Lest one gets caught up in the dizzing spin this has been given by the Guardian, the man involved, Balducci, is an Italian engineer that serves as an usher at the Vatican. Do not be accuse by the title. He is accused of trying to procure a prostitute from a choir member (in a backup choir). Both of these are lay people doing things apart from the Church. This is not a Vatican issue, except that these two had lay positions there. The were removed from those positions.

In addition to being a Gentleman to His Holiness, Mr Balducci is an engineer who is a board member of Italy’s public works department.

The Nigerian sung for 19 years in the Giulia Choir, which performs at St Peter’s Basilica when the Pope is not present.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8552804.stm

If one reads the transcripts, then we see that these men weren’t running any sort of crime ring, but caught up in a prostetution sting. The Vatican gave prompt response.

There are millions that visit the Holy See every year. I would not doubt that there are other serious criminals yet unkown among the myriad of lay people that work within the Vatican.

If the allegations prove truthful, then choirister Thomas Chinedu Ehiem and Gentleman of His Holiness, Angelo Balducci, are duplicitous men who had been able to hide their vile and scurrilous natures from those who trusted them. But to try and impune the Vatican, the Pope and the Church in any way in this case is utter rubbish. These two miscreants sinned of their own volition, influenced by their own inner demons. Yesterday, I read an article regarding renowned exorcist, Fr. Gabriele Amorth, who claims that Satanic forces are actively attacking the Vatican from within. I believe him. We must remember that parasites enter a host and dwell within it, but they can never be considered as part of the host organism they are set to destroy. Evil people who happen to be associated somehow with the Vatican must be judged seperately from the Church, based upon the particular sins they have committed of their own free will. It has been foretold that the Church would be attacked by the forces of darkness, let us not misplace blame in this instance. The truly “guilty one” wins a victory if we do.

It seems Balducci was part of the Vatican curia as well:

Balducci is also a senior adviser to the Congregation for the Evangelisation of Peoples, the department that oversees the Roman Catholic church’s worldwide missionary activities.

Hiyas:)

Wow…Convicted and judged…with no charges yet?

Balducci was arrested on 10 February, suspected of involvement in widespread corruption. A senior Italian government official, he is alleged to have to steered public works contracts towards favoured bidders. He has not been charged.
It was during this investigation into corruption that wiretaps revealed his ** alleged **sexual activity.

guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/04/vatican-gay-sex-scandal

Wow

Hiyas:)

And his alleged involvement was tied to this position?

He isn’t allowed a private life? It seems these allegations were done secretly / privately.

Just wondering… Should the Vatican do hat checks into private affairs?

Don’t see what the fuss is all about.

The accused are human as are we all and prone to sin (even serious or scandalous sin). Doesn’t matter whether you are associated with the Vatican or work at the corner store, a story like that should cause each of us to take stock of our own propensity to sin. Of course, being associated with the Vatican makes it an international story and does some damage to the image of the Church but when you get right down to it all this story does is remind us that we are all imperfect: individually and as a community.

They were not priests and no children were involved. This is NOT some sort of stain on the Church, IMHO.

He was an advisor. There are five offices of the curia: the Apostolic Chancery; Apostolic Dataria; Apostolic Camera; Secretariate of State; Secretariate of Briefs. This man was neither a Cardinal nor a minister. He was an Italian state employee, an engineer, and a corrupt one at that. The Guardian so slanted the incident, I am not taking anything they say at face value. They are England’s version of the National Enquirer. It may well be his volunteer work at the Vatican was nothing but a crediblity ploy while he collected graft.

Let’s not confuse this with a mere case of a surrender to concupiscence common to us all. Instead, let’s look at this case for what it is: the grave scandal brought on by allowing those who experience same-sex attractions *anywhere* near the Church and her work. That these men only worked in a lay capacity is completely irrelevant. Once we keep in mind that we are discussing the cases of two individuals who never should have been in the positions they held in the first place, our conversation will begin to bear more fruit.

Not really, it is an intellectual left-wing newspaper and has set itself up as the new atheist/ religious people are stupid kind of clarion caller.

This is damaging and it is yet more ammunition.

Hiyas:)

I understand what you are saying…but I must ask…unless they were openly and practicing gay…just how do you intend to defend?

There are many in government…charities…religious…teachers etc et al …who are of same sex attractions who do not openly act. How many are ‘closeted’ ?

We, as Catholics, are called to Social justice issues. These allegations of sexual misconduct are not yet substantiated.

What litmus test would you have the Vatican impose?

As always, just my thoughts

i would tend to agree. and yes, the Church should be checking in on the private lives of those who serve within it. that is part of her job, to shepherd, guide, correct, and discipline the laity.

Hiyas:)

And you would welcome someone checking on your private life…as a "Christian’… you too, are part of the Christian laity?

How do we do it…bed checks?

It hasn’t been established whether allegations are substantiated yet. We don’t even know if true.

You are right that it is the role of the Church to teach, guide and to discipline when someone goes astray. It is not the role of the Church to scrutinize the private life of those who work for her. Like any other entity, the Church has the right to run a police or background check on people that it employs to ensure that it does not employ criminals. She does not include, within her policies and practices, checking people’s private lives, such as their sexual attraction. Nor does the Church consider it justice to deny someone a position of employment because they have same-sex attraction, unless that poses a danger. The position of the Church on same-sex attraction is very clear and very public. Same-sex attraction is not sinful. Homosexual activity, on the other hand, can never be condoned. Therefore, the Church as a just and fair employer will not discriminate in hiring those with same-sex attraction, unless they are living in a situation that is in conflict with Church teaching. She will not go into the private lives of individuals that she employs more than is considered reasonable and moral. In several places in the CCC and the documents of Vatican II, the Church defends the individual’s right to privacy.

**Gaudium et spes 26 § 2

At the same time, however, there is a growing awareness of the exalted dignity proper to the human person, since he stands above all things, and his rights and duties are universal and inviolable. Therefore, there must be made available to all men everything necessary for leading a life truly human, such as food, clothing, and shelter; the right to choose a state of life freely and to found a family, the right to education, to employment, to a good reputation, to respect, to appropriate information, to activity in accord with the upright norm of one’s own conscience, to protection of privacy and rightful freedom. even in matters religious.**

We can’t fix one problem by violating one of our own principles. That wouldn’t be reasonable. We have to find reasonable solutions to problems, solutions that do not violate our own principles of justice and human rights.

It seems that if these gentlemen were employed by the Vatican and they breached the confidence of their employer, the reasonable solution is termination. There is no need for more rules. Dismissal is a very common and reasonable rule in any place of employment where there is a breach. It must first be proven that they did breach these rules. I would consider it a scandal, if this were to be true and the gentlemen in question were allowed to remain at their posts.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :slight_smile:

Tell me… if this had happened to any other organisation, say a Gay Rights group… would people here have been so willing to say that “there’s nothing to see”?

That the allegations are just that, allegations, and the evidence from a wire-tap has yet to be tested in court, so must be disregarded?

I think there is a double standard here. I think the Church ignores that at its peril.

I agree; even though I am not Catholic (well, former Catholic), I still find the comments here to be disturbing so far. “There is nothing to see”? There is something there to see, and it is sad that now it is within the Vatican itself. As a former Catholic I feel sad for the state of the Catholic Church now.

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