Vatican may bring forward conclave for next pope

You are right on the money, kid! :thumbsup:

Let’s be the Church militant for a while.

By surrendering the dignity and authority of the Church? By humbling and groveling ourselves into the dirt to appease leftists? Enough of the blue jeans Papacy. If we can’t even settle whether we should permit popular music in our worship, why are we so hesitant to embrace the rightful symbols of the church? If concern for the poor did not stop Christ from being annointed with expensive oils, then neither should far less worthy aims prevent the due dignity to the faith

There are many tiaras in existence, including Benedict XVI’s own tiara which is unworn. Any of them would be fantastic. Personally I like the Napoleon and John XXIII tiaras as well.

I hate to break the news to you, but those who do not respect the authority of the Pope (ie. many Catholics) will not change their views because the new Pope is crowned. The only Pope they will respect and honor will be one that views things the way they do.

I don’t think Benedict XVI’s Tiara CAN be worn. I think it was made too big. Maybe the Papier Mache tiara :smiley:

Although there may be another time in the future when
a return to the papal coronation as opposed to the
inauguration preferred since John Paul I could be
appropriate, I do not believe now is yet that time.
Still, it will be the decision of the selected one.

During the past century or so, the longest conclave was five days. Most have been two or three days.
washingtonpost.com/world/conclave-lengths/2013/02/11/3c3cad38-7480-11e2-95e4-6148e45d7adb_graphic.html

I agree with the earlier comment that there is no reason to wait 15 days after Pope Benedict steps down. The rationale for the 15 day waiting period is to give cardinals time to gather in Rome after they have heard the news of a papal vacancy. Since that news has already gone out, the conclave may as well convene as quickly as possible after the pope has vacated the chair of St. Peter.

So I heard, the Conclave will not open until March.

I don’t think Benedict XVI’s Tiara CAN be worn. I think it was made too big.

Oh, really? That would be news to me. I know the Napoleon Tiara was originally made too small, and too heavy (in addition to containing descriptions praising Napoleon and stolen jewels)…but this would be the first I’ve heard about the B16 Tiara being unwearable.

…and I don’t even know if the Paiper Mache Tiara is still in existence. I haven’t been able to find any pictures of it.

=====

What has been the longest amount of time for a selection to be made once the conclave began?

As noted, they usually last a few days and have half a dozen or so ballots - at least in the last 100 years. However, I don’t know when the last time we went into a Conclave with so many potential choices and so many questions to be answered. Past Conclaves have either tended to elect the favorite (Pius XII and B16) or settle on a compromise candidate after the two main wings of the Church have been unable to triumph (John XXIII and JPII). We are going into this conclave with many good, potential, and popular candidates. Many of them would, for their part, break some kind of tradition. We could have the first Black Pope in modern times, the first Western Hemisphere Pope, the first American Pope, etc. I would be surprised if we saw white smoke before the afternoon of Day three, if not much later than that.

Here is roughly what could be expected:

Day one comprises the oath, opening mass, etc. A maximum of one ballot is held. Days two through three/four contain four ballots each. After three days of balloting (not sure if the first day would count), the conclave is suspended for a day of prayer and an address. Seven more ballots, no more than four per day, and another day of reflection and an address. That process repeats once more, then another seven ballots, a day of reflection, followed by narrowed down voting of only two candidates.

The longest it has taken since 1850 was 14 ballots, or five days.

Than the Carpenter and the Fisherman? Absolutely.

It is a bit ridiculous in this day and age that the Cardinals seemingly cannot come together in time to commence their conclave on the 29th. I doubt any of them are in Outer Mongolia or anywhere that requires lengthy travel or anything.

Yes, the last day Pope Benedict will serve as the Holy Father is Feb. 28th.

So the question is what date in March will the conclave begin? According to the news article which Jharek Carnelian shared with us, the cardinals will. set a date for the beginning of the conclave. They can’t set that date until a quorum of cardinals have arrived in Rome.

Under current rules, the earliest date that the cardinals could choose would be March 15th. But according to the news article, there is some consideration to modifying the rules to allow for an earlier date.

I heard scantly there talking about the Cardinals this morning, (from something like “Incardinate”) and though most are Archbishops, I think an ordinary Priest has even been a Cardinal before. I have met a Bishop, at times, I wonder, how a Bishop comes into that position with so many Priests around. I know of one young Priest but he’s done fairly well for himself. I wonder sometimes, if there is a chance he could become a Bishop.

It is a bit ridiculous in this day and age that the Cardinals seemingly cannot come together in time to commence their conclave on the 29th.

That would be a little bit difficult…seeing as how this isn’t a leap year :stuck_out_tongue:

Than the Carpenter and the Fisherman? Absolutely.

So you would rather see…what? The Pope to walk around in rugged clothes, unwashed, with dirty and worn hands? Christ certainly had dignity…but none of the Popes are Christ. St. Peter had dignity, but none of the Popes are St. Peter. None of the Popes are carpenters or Fishermen or simple peasants - why should they pretend to be such?

What is gained from reducing the office, the Church, etc? Nothing. Humility can be a good thing, but it can also be overdone. And when such humility goes beyond what is good and right to honor God and Christ, you have crossed that line.

Stop reducing our church.

:thumbsup::smiley:

Thanks for posting this. I think it would be great if the Cardinals are able to convene the Conclave somewhat sooner, both for the reasons cited AND because the suspense is killing me!:stuck_out_tongue:

As for the question of a Papal Coronation, I think it’d be fantastic. I think it highlights both the grandeur and mystery of the Papacy. When understood correctly it does not compete with or take anything away from Jesus as our Lord, Saviour and King of Kings. In fact, it points to Jesus and His Kingdom all the more. All the faithful at their Baptism are anointed as priest, prophet and king, but that fact can be forgotten or overlooked in our daily lives, especially for those living in a democracy

That the Church and Her faithful live in both grandeur and poverty, exquisite beauty and the reality if sin and evil in our daily lives is also mysterious, at least to me. The grandeur and beauty of the Church- in Her liturgical vessels, vestments, stained glass windows, etc- doesn’t betray the fact that we are the Church Militant. Rather, the beauty of the Church points to the supreme, unchangeable beauty of God and helps to catechise, console and encourage us as we walk in this “vale of tears.”

As to the problems some have with the idea of a Papal Coronation, you may want to surrender your ideas and negative attitude to the Holy Spirit and ask His guidance. That's what I've done in the past when I had trouble with teachings and/ or practices of the Church and it's always helped me. I think it's both important and consoling to know that someone is steering the ship, the Barque of Peter. At all time. Unfailingly. For over 2, 000 years. Preserved from error. This fact always consoles me, and I hope it will console you, too.:D

Ewps :blush:

Dr. Edward Peters, canon lawyer, says that only the pope may change the date for the conclave. Therefore, according to him, it is in Benedict’s hands. If Benedict does not issue a waiver prior to February 28 at 8:00 PM Rome-time, then it appears we must wait the designated 15-20 days.

canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/16/the-latest-issue-re-the-conclave/

Dr. Edward Peters, canon lawyer, says that only the pope may change the date for the conclave. Therefore, according to him, it is in Benedict’s hands. If Benedict does not issue a waiver prior to February 28 at 8:00 PM Rome-time, then it appears we must wait the designated 15-20 days.

That is more or less the conclusion I came to. The Pope has nearly unlimited authority, but the College of Cardinals do not, even during the time without a Pope. If they tried to skirt the rules, I’m afraid groups not happy with the ultimate selection would find it a convenient excuse to claim illegitimacy.

I see no good reason to rush things. We have all the time in the world. :shrug:

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